As you guys prolly already recognized there's a lot of talking about the reloadbug abuse.
In my opinion CB improved with kickin out that shared lineup rule, so everybody can mix with his friends and everybody is happy, but coming up with that rule, that reloadbug is not allowed anymore you don't bring more fun and fairness into that game, just a senseless new conflict point for laming-teams. This Bug belongs to CoD2 as silent climbs, strafe jumps etc, which are just a matter of skill. Just because some older teams cry about it cause it's not their kind of playing style, it would be stupid to bring up that rule. Me for myself using reloadbug with shotgun, though you can also fail it and it suddenly gets an advantage for the enemy. Lot of Players acting like they loose matches because of that, which is completly bullshit. For example I play alot with rulo who got a totally oldsql playing style, no strafes, 125fps no reloadbug and hes Topfragging regularly vs topteams without all these things and he's also never complaining about others who do it, because the point is just rediculous. I won't change my playing style and move like a mongol just because I can't behave like I used to do since years.
PS.: never heard of someone complaining about using reloadbug with scope in cod4, cause that bug brings the sick fragmovie scenes we all love.
Eh, you are making mistake when you combine bugs and features.
Reloading faster is bug abusing. You trick game mechanics (reload timer) when you change weapon twice fast.
Climbing without noises is not bug if you do it slowly. Sound like realistic that you can climb slowly and it doesn't make any noises. Climbing soundless after hiding the weapon is bug but it's allowed because slowly climbing is.
Strafe jumps (in both way, W+A/D and W+mouse) and reload shots are pure bugs (sprint boost just after reload allows players to jump much farther) what I could prohibit. I'd like to prohibit speed bug next to wall too. Even I do it self.
Game is better when players doesn't abuse bugs.
PS. This is not CoD4 and it's better to keep games different. My personal opinion is that CoD4 is too fast game, sprint etc.
PPS. I am kinda oldschool too and I don't whine of those abuses. Except this reload bug what is ridiculous.
''reloadbug'' to me is a part of the game just like kar98k reloadshot both werent used back in 2006 when top clans were active and cod2 was getting more sponsors/lans but the game evolved and who knows how to do it shouldnt be punished for it as the opponent have the oportunity of using it aswell.things are fine as they are now and this will bring as aaron said a new way for lame conflicts
stop being picky
conflicts already take too much time for timestamps and baning rwb as it is atm
ye but have you ever seen any conflict about it in 2006-2010 ? nah, this all started since someone lamed waL or they did, however.
I agree to let it be, you need some skills to do those bugs and it's part of the game aswell, that shitty reload bug thingy is so bad because ppl are just waiting for someone to do it so they can get pts, pathetic
Talked with head about it and i suggested to make a poll about it to see what the community is thinking and he just said "no".
The question which raises in my head is: why doing a thread about improving cod2 if there are strong decisions like removing reloadbug which are just taken by (at least) 1 single admin? It leaves a big questionmark.
Furthermore, I affirm that most of the people who want to forbid the reloadbug arent even smart and skilled enough to use this.
Another point is, why are the guys who want to forbid this are dont get the point that you just can spray unzoomed with this, means the shitty hitreg of cod2 wont accept this anyway. Now those guys come again and say "ah ye spraying unzoomed is ok, but whats with shotgun? you only use sg in close combat so its a 1 of the strongest weapon!!!!!!" I can easily make this point invalid cuz as most of you guys will know that you tag people from 1 m very often (and with often I also mean often) so this is just another point to make this weapon a bit more playable.
Also I know that there are "oldsql" players who like to forbid everything which makes the game faster, but if the majority of this community wants this, I'd rather see the some of the old guys leaving than most of the "new" guys which will kill this game sooner or later and we can all say a big thanks to the admins.
This Bug belongs to CoD2 as silent climbs, strafe jumps etc, which are just a matter of skill. Just because some older teams cry about it cause it's not their kind of playing style, it would be stupid to bring up that rule.
thats just the problem, i agree a fast shooting rifle isn't really a problem but when you are in a fight with a shotgun and he spend a day controling that bug he can shoot so fast and there is just no other weapon that can kill him, he can just shoot hide and shoot again befor you even know what happend.
You should make a poll about it. Anyway that reload bug is used unconsciously in 90% cases. Also what happens when you tag people with tg on 1 meter? I would understand the people who claim about it if trenchgun will kill instantly from 1 meter, but it's often shitty weapon and you are almost always getting killed after tagging.
i guess this type of conflicts started when old players from 2005/06 realised this is a whole difrent ball game as it is now because i never saw current players complaining about this unless they saw one conflict and needed to lame for a win
as this is a game for the comunity make a poll and let us decide or keep it allowed as this doesnt change the outcome of a damn WAR!
Lets make poll so we can get nadebinds/scripts/cheating allowed. What a nice idea. Majority means nothing really. Reload bug is called bug for reason and rules prohibit bug abuses. If you would discover new bug what then? Like Kar98k shoots automatic fire. Would you use it? What makes that situation any different than this?
just watch the q3 engine: developers wanted to remove the strafe jump as this also was a "bug" in the engine (cuz the q3 engine was the first engine which used real 3D vector spaces). speeding up through the established key-combination is just a result of a failing vector analysis.
but as (most of) the community liked this "bug", q3 developers decided to leave it.
simzor wins as always. only half knowledge everywhere I cant stand this anymore. lets forbid everything. clip to side ( Q E ), strafe, reloadjump, shotgun fast reload, stopping reload with MPs to shoot again faster before real reload animation is finished, running faster on wall, remove smoke again because some players have low fps.
A bug is a bug, may aswell allow clipping seeing as both teams can use that advantage right? If a gun can shoot faster and it wasnt intentional by the game developers, it makes it overpowered and abusable based on their origional design of balance. Keep the game mechanics how it was designed to be.. or at least not abusable.
Any repeatedly abusable bug that gives a significant advantage in combat against your opponent is something that shouldn't be allowed. The shotgun wasn't designed to be able to fire so fast for a very good reason.
This means, i can make a conflict if the opponent use that bug? hmm interesting. almost everyone use that bug with a rifle weapon. with shotgun i understand its not allowed, but with scope or rifleis almost everyone use that bug.
conclusion: If i loss a match. I can ask every match the demo of the scope, he use the bug anyway 1 time. And i make a conflict. This will happen at very much matches with everyone, if you say its not allowed.
Thx for all your opinions and statements, interesting to know what different kind of players think.
You wouldn't like to have such a soldier in your Army? Bad mistake!
Btw b1z, that conflict was made by waL vs a former team of mine, because Pilleman always used that fastshooting with the SG and he was really the King of fastreload and will never be forgotten <3Pilleman<3. waL lost the conflict btw. And as long as I think about it, it makes less and less sense to ban the fastreload with SG, because there are only a few players who really control it perfectly, it's not like that everyone can do it, most players fail hard trying it. What would a khill/bartZ be without fastreloading? It simply belongs to some players. Head and gefroy you are acting like everyone fastreloads their shotguns like maniacs, that's definietly not true. And those few who do it are known and mostly add a strong new school movement to it, because it somehow goes hand in hand. inzY, smashval, lyrixzz are such players for example. Tell me atleast 10 players who are using this bug so obviously that you will remember them because of it, I bet you can't and that point just makes that whole discussion unnecessary. And actually it's damn low to even think about removing it, just get aim and kill the guy who trys to shoot you first, if you fail the shotgun you actually deserve to die, doesnt matter if you die by the first shot or the second or third which got fastreloaded. Oh and gefroy, Nik is correct with that, I am watching demos regularly, just when I'm bored or interested in someones gamestyle and I would say that almost 80percent of all active scopes and Kars use that reloadbug though many of them fail, but they all atleast try and manage to do it correctly from time to time. And tbh I really don't know why especially you got a problem with it, as I know sacrebleu is playing dawnville which is an absolutely shotgun map pretty strong, it's even hard to pick your shotgun anway in whitehouse or orph, even with fastreload.
Eh. I was suspicious in my last post what was reply to Niek's post where he told: "almost everyone use that bug with a rifle weapon". I doubt that was empirically-derived information (what is information what is gained by own experience) what isn't reliable. I don't think like Niek do that almost everyone uses the bug and my claim is only based my experience in matches with my team and mix-teams where I were part of. My claim isn't any better than Niek's claim. Because I didn't saw anyone in my team using those bugs regularly so I can't give 10 names to you. Some opponents were abused that bug plenty of times but I don't write their names up if I play against them. I don't get how this is unnecessary discussion if I can't give 10 names to you.
So you watch demos requlary. You said that: "almost 80percent of all active scopes and Kars use that reloadbug". 80% is pretty much. I doubt that this is also emprically-derived information. It would be nice to be wrong here but I think you didn't compiled statistics what would prove the result you gave. I also doubt that you aren't watched so much demos that your result would be reliable at all. But if you did statistic please provide us:
- Amount of demos what you checked
- Amount of sniper / kar and sg players
- Amount of - | | - , who used the bug
- Amount of - | | - , who controlled it
I think 1000 demos would be ideal so your sample sizes won't be too small. Remember, more is better Until that moment please use word "many" instead of 80% what you offered.
I'd like also to grab your claim: "if you fail the shotgun you actually deserve to die". There is so many reason why I would fail with shotgun against someone else.
Lets imagine that I just failed against you with shotgun. Situation was that I was behind the wall and you jumped to my crosshair. BAM I just shot you in the air but you didn't die. You are tagged now. Your reflexes weren't better than mine so you tried to shot me from air but you missed. Now is the point when you abuse the bug and you shoot me when I still were reloading my next shell into the chamber. I got killed because I just tried to be fair.
I would also kill you with first shell of my shotgun. Unfornately to me we were playing .de server what gives ping advantage to you. You were much further in server than in my screen so only half of my shots hit to you so you only tagged. You would blame my skills but welcome to play in Finnish server and check the pain of "high" ping when your opponent have 20-30. But that's all of that subject because that should be discussed in another topic.
So if bug abuses would be allowed. What if I would use bug and check your position trough the wall before you came closer? Because I know how to use that kind bug am I allowed to use that bug against you? It's exactly under same logic than reload bug. You know how to use it so you allow it to yourself. Because I know how to look trough walls I can use it. Right? (There is a bug what allows you to see trough the wall. I didn't invent it for example)
Yes, we play Dawnville with SacreBleu. We would play something different maps but community won't let us to play maps what we would like to play. There is a topic (Subway's "Your Suggestions To Improve COD2 On Clanbase" what is pinned) where is that subject discussed. I hope that also you would take part of that subject in there.
It's my luck that I don't have to use reload bug against someone with shotgun because I don't play with it regularly. We don't have a roles what we follow in SacreBleu. We have around 3 different snipers and 3 shot-gunners who plays with those weapons in some maps. I only play with it if our shot-gunner have a bad day or something like that or we are playing Matmata.
Usually I play with m1, kar or sniper rifle and I don't use reload bug with those weapons.
I play very much mix matches, i never use scope. But every mix i play, the scope use that bug. a few dont use it. mostly for shooting in the smoke on burgundy. But there will come very much conflicts about this. just a wast of time for the admins. if you say this bug is not allowed, why we can use the reloadshot with a kar? why we can climb silent on a ladder or wall?
u obviously missed my point sir. the fact is, it's up to you if you know and will use this kind of "bug". it requires some skill to use that "bug" and as both opponents can do so it should be allowed. but oh well, don't think that kind of advantage is even needed in cod2 but okay.
haha no. but i find it funny how ur saying this shit since u got there ur herz putting effort into finding proofs to win 1 single match i esle find it funny how he tried to ban me and azerty by writing his opinion about us on democrew thread with timestamps against us. anyway, his attempt to ban us failed.
The ability to exploit a bug shouldn't be classed as skill.. You wouldn't exactly go about calling people who exploit the game well enough to not get caught (cheaters) as skilled if you knew they were doing it. It's more of a bad habit which people really need to remove from their game. The last thing we wanna do is effectively promote the use of a bug just so they can be on an even playing field with an opponent that uses it consistently.
well whatever. ur probz the one who decides, i dont use this bug and neither im focused on these things but if you gonna disallow all those things, you should make some rules with list of all disallowed bugs. just my thought.
well for example in powerbase all "older" players who were in top german clans 2006/2007 never use the fast reload with any weapon... and on the other side all newer players who were unknown in these days use it... I also experienced it when watching demos so it's not completely wrong.
I would atleast go with: no reloadbug with sg anymore, other weapons like kar and scope stay uneffected. Lil bit sad, but I could live with it and get used to it. Would be still an effective weapon. Will be hard to not use it in situations where I get rushed in orph for example :P
But you must admit that this discussion is only coming up, because some older teams like Mega are crying about it, back in 2010 nobody talked about it though it was used already. Donno if it's justified . I mean we are all happy that they play again, but did you ever played them? It's a joke tbh, they write ''clip, bug, bugabuse, etc. nearly every round and you mostly don't even know what you did wrong in their eyes, so cg_teamchatsonly 1 is my first intention before playing them, and they are also 1 of the maintriggers which brought up those points, so you need to decide for whom/which cod2 generation you are editing rules.
You are watching the cross, you cracked 3 or 4 bullets from the scope and you are reloading it. Suddenly your opponent comes out and you need to stop reloading. You all guys know the way you stop it. You always actually use that bug by double switching the weapon to make the reload faster. I'm 100% sure that noone is waiting for the rifle/shotgun to be reloaded itself till the end, you do that double-switch even on the last reloading bullet.
It's the SAME bug, just being used in different situation. If I'm not right, pls correct me.
I just love gefroy's replies. They all add a lot of nothing and everything to the discussion (just a side note).
Rules are rules. You can't legitimate them in some situations and illegitimate them whenever you want to. You can't allow a scope to do it a few times, but on the other a hand a shotgun can't do it every time.
And if you do try to do such an ambiguous rule how many times can a scope do it before its considered bug abuse?
If the shotgun kill someone once doing it its considered bug abuse?
as you may guess: yes, i've played a lot of times vs people doing it and when i die i rage with myself for not killing them or not doing this before they have the chance to do it
and if fast shot/reload or wtv you call it isn't allowed, i do have a problem with stopping the reload animation because its exactly the same thing: it removes time between shots. you can still claim that every weapon can do that and if you do so, now i have a problem with reload shot, because i cant do it with every weapon which makes some weapons over powered (by your standards).
i just cant get why are you guys are trying to remove this bug. meta game on CoD2 changed a lot since it has been released and fast reload awareness is just a part of this evolution
idd, seems like head/cb-crew decided and that's it, though there was never an official statement to this topic. ''Abusing Bugs is not allowed as mentioned in the rules''! Ye right, this belongs to the rules since long, and this bug was never a subject till now.
I SAY! REBELLION, LET'S FASTSHOOT THE SHIT OUTTA EM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Anyway, there should be a change in the rules to specify what's allowed and what's not allowed because "Bug Abusing" is just not specific enough. I understand that strafe, reload shooting are allowed bugs but fast shooting is also a bug and is not allowed. This all needs to be clarified in general (rules) not just in the forum.
Strafe jump is no Bug
Prone clip is a bug
Sideclip isnt a bug
Reloadbug is a bug, cause u have infinite bullets without reloading.
Reloadshot is part of the game nowadays and can easy be countered. Its just a gamestyle atm, cant say that about the reloadbug.
GOD, top players complaining about a simple "reload bug"? Really? When, in fact, they use it also.
Okay, some oldsql players don't use it, because is not their gaming style, or w/e, but you can not complain about who uses it. Or, if you "can" complain, why are you doing it? Some bugs are lame and THAT SHOULD NOT BEING ALLOWED. I am talking about "invisible bugs".
I mean the toujane middle roof - the famous castle;
Carentan on the "last house" (I don't know how you call it, but in Portugaland we call it "South");
Another one, on dawnville: that you can see for under the sh (nazi spawn);
and so ever (and currently, are disallowed). So, imo, the game it is fine.
What a girl - "hey, we have lost a match against a lower ranked team with 1200 points, lets being jerk and win it because they have used the trench faster than the normal; or, at least cancel the match to the other top teams like us don't see that we have lost a war against a poor skilleds. Yeah, thats fine". In fact, for a player use that shit you call a not allowed bug, requires skill to do it: perfect timing for switching weapons and reload it, etc.
Another pointless topics that I have seen (reload animation; packets to 100; blabla...) are also ridiculous. You will ruin this game, also is CoD1 ruined - but in this case, the guys can not say something like "it is ruined because the admins are pretty shit", because the players lamed (and are laming) this game (CoD2) so bad.
Joining to your off-topic, JikseR only said that I am not allowed to play; he doesn't mean I am playing, so he is not "sure I am playing it" (selfbust)
But thats not what is the topic about, anyway, re-joining it once again, what I see is that if you will aprove a new rule about the ridiculous bug, more conflicts will be done and, consequently, months and months to wait for a simple solve. But, for me its insignificant, as I am not allowed to play it and I can't even join to a CoD2 forum without being judged, because I am a really bad person only for being suspended (it will not appear on my curriculum btw), so I don't get it :C
i love how the portuguese are fighting for this so hard, as soon as we told swift-r he was unable to use the fast reload bug he became unable to kill anyone, as he actually had to AIM instead of spamming 3 shots in the space of 1.5 seconds.
also a point that hasnt been made, there is SOME argument if in a shotgun vs. shotgun battle, the fast reload bug could be used, as both players can use it, however stupid that would be. however, what about a thompson versus a shotgun? if the thompson manages to dodge the shotguns first shot, he can use the opportunity to rush as he cocks the gun. but if the sg can fire again within half a second, the thompson just has to pray for a headshot, removing any skill required other than holding fire.
the reason the fast reload shouldnt be used is because it breaks the game, and if you cant use the shotgun normally you shouldnt be playing cod2 at a high level.
well thats not exactly the same, if you think about it. im not gonna talk about cheats, you obviously put them on "the list" just to have stronger arguments. picture a 1v1 situation: both players can do the reloadbug whenever they want and wherever they are. but if one is on a roof and the other one standing in the middle of nowhere, only one can clip. see the diff? the same thing applies to jumps. only one player in the 1v1 situation is in the right position to use/abuse the jump, ergo its not fair.
I agree that reloadbug is very much abusable, especially with a shotgun, but its something you can do no matter the situation, and that applies for every player on the map. your examples are wrong.
You either ban all bugs: reloadshots, clips, strafe jumps, fast reloads, silent climb etc., or none at all. There is no reasonable argument for banning only the fast reload and not the reload shot, simple as that. Like Head said about the weapons "or we keep it for all weapons or we remove it": apply the same logic to the bugs please.