I think the newer games were made for more ppl for more moneymaking.
Though noobs feel better if they can kill some without too much effort.
Other games like for example quake dont allow a noob to get any kill vs a good player bcs its harder to kill them and yes its more skill needed there...
I played the newer cods alot and i have to say that its more about camping to get the high kill streaks but faster shooters cause more adrenalin and adrenalin with brain is the main resource for ego shooters
KEEP q3 ALIVE

You should really try Urban Terror.

UNREAL TOURNAMENT 99 .

thats all you need to know.

The best tactical shooter(e.g you really need skill) is Enemy Territory. Beside listening for granades, footsteps etc. You really need team work to complete the objectiv. Brain > Aim.
You should give it a try
EDIT: Forgot about the movement. With a lil practice you can move faster, you need to know how to jump and how to use terrain(geography of the map? sry lack of english skill ) to move faster

HAHAHHAHAHHA!

Best troll ever!

100% true,

MoH:AA was the best game imo. Top players/clans can beat lower once easly on skill and top teams versus eachother needed tactics or one guy being onfire to win a game. was really fun, also everybody had a own style of playing like in soccer. some rush, some camp, some play smart. in EuroCup matches tactics were required, big fun!

x

As a long time Microsoft Office 2010 Microsoft Office user I appreciate Office 2010 the newest version. The programs have been completely Microsoft Office updated since the 2007 version. The Office 2010 key disc loaded on my Widows 7 computer Office 2010 download with no problems. It ran the Outlook 2010 update and I was on my way. You can install this Microsoft Outlook 2010 on up to three computers in Microsoft Office 2007 your home. Using the Word program is similar to the Office 2010 beta 2007 version. This is a small learning curve to figure out where all the commands and tools are located. It uses Office 2010 professional Tabs to locate all of the features in a logical arrangement. Creating, saving, editing and printing a document is easy and fast.

i agree with the topic, BUT its not just like this in FPS games, take console games for example.. back in the day on the 8BIT or 16bit, games were f*cking hard.. these days on newer consoles you can finish games in 1/2 days... boring.. and expensive.. just another reason to download games tbh...
also i agree everything is beeing done for you already in the newer games, radar... grenades showing where they are.. you name it.. im a unreal tournament 2004 myself and i simply love it cus its really based on skill.. no helping you.
just pure aim stamina+speed also SOUNDskill, like you have an extra pair of eyes, and just overall SKILL. ofcourse teamwork is a big essence, anyway my point is i doubt we will ever get real hard games anymore in the upcoming years, everyday you get ''new'' gamers, mostly young ones, and the older generations knows more what hard gaming is due to the older consoles and the first FPS games that came out etc, so... in order to stimulate those ''new'' gamers to play and buy more games, they make easier ones and make em look ''pretty'', this is just how i think it works

specilizing in offering wholesale jerseys
,u can buy cheap jerseys
.Profession cheap jerseys
suppliers, authentic quality wholesale jerseys
with more cheap price jerseys.only 17usd now.Authentic Mlb baseball jerseys ,nhl cheap jerseys,nba jerseys, cheap jerseys, wholesale jerseys, baseball jerseys ,in latest jerseys disign and prompt delivery. new cheap jerseys with tags and Authentic NFL cheap jerseys equipment logo embroidered on neck! wholesale jerseysAll the jerseys team logo,name and number are stitched on cheap jerseys.

To be honest, i've played lots of FPS games. In xbox 360, ps3 and pc. The one that i really enjoy and i really think needs a good skill (at least in leagues) is Urban Terror (since Q3 is dead). Urban Terror mix up some stuff of Q3 and some of games like CS, but seriously try out, its a different game. =)

Urban Terror started as a mod of Q3, using that engine, but like in 2004 is another game.

If you think, wtf is this guy saying? Look at ClanBase leagues, Urban Terror has like 5 divisions of leagues for URT, in 3 different modes. There is 1500 servers in all over the world.

Being a free-game, you just install it, run it, and play.
Nice game, dynamic, fast, funny and have good level at leagues. Just is lack of some better graphics.

Regards

Anyone who aspires to be anyone dares to do anything. Unfortunately, lack of veteran players cause chaos in the recent games all over the world. As a consequence, there's been occured a kinda subsidence in our country. Cheaters are the projections of it. What's more, there's no respect at all.

A game where yu need skills is Call of duty 1

The sound yu hear when they are rushing thru the snow is different of when they are crouching in the bushes.
Witout a headset yur nothing in this game.
But when i play COD:BO on PS3 than i had already positive scores from day 1.

The only way to get better is train train train on the oldschool games.

specialize yurself in reflexes and tactics and than yur a player, a real player.

the good games i know are

COD1
COD2
Quake series
counterstrike series
sry for the others i forgot

i agree to that fps turn noobie kind of opinion. and also that its just natural. see gaming got in the mainstream and most of the mainstream consumers just want fun but loosing is no fun. that are totally different players now. they want to play for 1 maybe 2h after there work and they also want to frag. the mayority just isnt that harcore competitive esport type of player and they should enjoy vidio games too so... . you just should decide what type of player you are.
i played just a little cod4 MP on PC so maybe iam wrong but the hardest thing about it is to spot the enemy to hit him is easy as shiting in a toilet. the hitzone seems to be twice as large as the player model and even the ak 47 nails 10 rounds in nearly the same point over the whole map. Is there any recoil or spread at all??? To me it seems to be luck mostly when i got good kd´s

i thing q3 engine is the best ever developed for fps and thats mostly of its nice hitdetection. and for all those competitive players out there ive got a little pearl made out of q3 called urban terror which is so deep that some players advancing in it even if they play it 5 years... player models are blue and red looking ridiculous but they just easy to spot and camping becomes harder. you can gain speed open end by beeing good in its movement. and hitdetection is so nice you can miss somebody by shooting between his arm and body. weapons are fun and nice balanced. it has nothing to do with realistic gun fights because its all about fair competition. it was a mod for quake3 and become standalone with ioq3. the developers make it all in there free time and its free of charge. in my opinion thats the reason it stays competitive cause its not for selling stats. try it if you like that oldscool esporty shooters: http://www.urbanterror.info
only big problem in urt is cheating since PB stopped supporting and its free you got hackers everywhere but it has its leagues and people investing time to look over demos...
jeh what else ah yes dont anger about it all so much try to search a good game for you and support its community

UT99 has no skill limit, no mater how much you play you can always improve in some aspect of the game. And of course it has the longest skill gap between a noob/public player and a pro.

[-----[Newbie]------[Public Players that discovered dodge]---------------------------------------------------------------------------------[Average players]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[PRO/EC level]]

The first online version of medal of honor ownt!

Its pretty funny, i see your big ass 1000000 char long message about why cod isnt pro (cause they know where to nade? ehh?) and then you come and talk about a crappy ass third world country game?

Let me tell you sof2 is as shit as any other game out there that doesnt deserve to get mentioned.

sof2 lol.. really it blows and it feels like its made by some noob ass students trying to make the new cs.

They even had to add excessive blood and gore to make it interesting ;/

[QL>>>UT>>>>>>>>>CS>>>>>>>>>>>COD]

Cod2 all the way! but cod1 players own moar.

lol @ everyone talking about cod4 and it's perks and cooked nades, they're disabled in wars.

Comparing cod4 to halo is hilarious, clearly never played a competitive match in your life.

back to cod1

any kind of "realistic war" game is bad
battlefield is bad because of HUGE maps and its nothing but people hiding in fuckin bush 500km away trying to snipe u down

cod1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8 w/e amount of version it has
is bad because its just terrible slow
its more about tactics then actual skill more about knownin ur teamm8s then anything else

older games where more like rush in and kill which was much more based on aim and not about if i trow nade over this wall with angle of xx then it will drop in the favo camper spot so i dont have to check that anymore
yes i played cod
no i didnt enjoy multiplayer at all

didnt play quake played sof2 which is kind of a mix between quake and some dumb war game
its alot faster then most crap games it has kind of gamestyle from quake slow'd down a bit but with a "realistic skin" back then game is old by now
that game was lil about tactics aswell but if some1 simply out aims u u can camp as much as u wanted u wont win
u cant hide like u can in lame ass games as in bf / cod people spot u easy in sof

tho i bought ut2004 few years ago and i enjoy that game never played on cb because ut2004 was already dead when i bought it but what am i suppose to do playing shit games like cod where skill is a non factor in my eyes or play ut2004 where ur aim plays much bigger role


o and believe me for console lovers
aimbotting/wallhackin is possible on ps3/xbox aswell just wait till some hacker really wants to cheat in that game and is actually able to code shit him self
maybe theres stuff out there already

doesnt xbox has hdd? or some usb slot? to dump usb stick in same for ps3
pretty sure it wont be hard to hack on console

reason i dislike consoles cus i hate playing MP games with best possible grapics even tho i can run games just fine
playing old games where i can reach over 1000 fps easily
yet i play on worst possible grapics just to remove as much as possible details from map so i can see the "enemy" faster/better
i dont play games for grapics/details i play games for good gameplay and lately there has not been released a single game which is any good with lately i prolly mean for last 2/4 years lol if not longer :O

people should switch back to cod2. no flame,its my opinion

Think of it as handholding, the companys do it for money if everyone can pick up a game and easily be "good" at it in the general sense that it's thrown around these days then that's that.

Although you have to take in store that PC gaming isn't exactly thriving, there are so many people modding games to give them unbelieveable advantages (mainly recent games) that it completely kills the PC gaming scene.

When i play on my xbox, whether i'm classed as pro or not in a game that doesn't require much concentration (i've had a nuke in modern warfare 2 while Woodcutting on runescape), at least i know i won't have people with aimbots to worry about. And this is why i believe that PC gaming is becoming more of a joke.

With High tech Gfx cards becoming easier and easier to obtain a lot of people will have high spec computers, able to run such games as MW2. But when they get on it they realise that PC gaming is a waste of money.

Tbh, if hackers (crackers, not the media portrayed drivel) don't pack the shit in with "aimbots" and unfair "mods" then PC gaming will just become a joke, sure deveolpers can try their hardest to make it crack free, but i seriously doubt that will ever happen, or at least happen in the near future.

- pl0x, ut99 / ut2k4 player.

Completely agree with this!!

SHUT UP noob ..

in vcod u would be seargent.^3HENRY or something

lowboi

fact is the publisher wants money

there are more pros than nubs .. so why the fuck should they do some skillgame if everynub will be angry with it coz they suck...

yes thats shit but they would be fucking stupid if they dont make games like this in these days...

true.

thats original game try out promod ffs

cod4 promod dont need skill omg its dumb to say that.
in cod4 pro players are rare hard to find them. I wonder what
will he say about this blog how many time he spend getting that good.
btw if you think cod4 dont need skill why you are not pro there you can even earn money.

and this is why i still play quake and ut.

rofl speaking about nerds, it´s a fucking game why do you even care it´s just for fun -.-...

Hmm try crysis. There skill realy mean something.(not as much as in cs or quake but still when compared to cod4 and mw2)
[--dont know how play--------------------------know how to play-------------pro]
You are still kind a right. They should make games which test skills, have now day grafics and add more pawns on chess table. Still keeping balance and make it ultimate test of skills.

And have ranking system( maybe look K/D and how much have played game)
keeping newcommers in their own level and more experienced in their own.

So true thats why im sticking with UT a game that 11years old but still takes skill to play

Altho cheaters nullify that fact ://

the new and improved fps games are like crap every time i try one i get bored after 20mins

they lack that magical essence the old shooters had like Quake and UT

I really don't like the new games (cod, ect) and I loved the quake days... At the moment I'm playing urban terror. It's a quake mod and the awesomest game I ever played. http://www.urbanterror.info/news/home/

Go go!

1st check this link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7VAhzPcZ-s

cod4 promod actually has a good skill gap, sure not as much as CSS and dire for example but compare it to games like MW2 and you'll see a much bigger gab.

low skill cod4 plays have slow reactions, bad game sense, bad aim ect whereas a high skill cod4 player is better on all accounts.

games are starting to be more about graphics than gameplay now due to the amount of casual gamer zombies.

Cod 4 is skilless because of martyr, 3x nade, 35 man servers and grenade launchers/rocket launchers etc.

most server are f'kin stupid and have 40 people allowing 3x nade each, ofcourse you get assfucked every time, irrelevant of how skilled you are. even a 12 man server 3x nade and GL and RL and choppers and airstrikes and martyr is still way too much anti skill, your guaranteed to die by pure luck cosntantly.

i still pwn entire servers with just my knife but thats because im leet. all of the anti skill makes it much harder to be leet

Wahahahha I never though I would listen to comments about that game since years ago!!! o0
First time I played GunZ was like 7 years ago! xD
And GunZ doesn't requite much skill nowadays... most people just macro everything T.T

hear hear

LOL GAY NOOB ..

Game is supossed to be fun . Iam glad about cod4 with everything.
On other hand yes it requers less skill but not none.
Yes quake requers a lot off skill , but i think while playing everyone can gain skill in all games... Just a metter of time...
Face it quake days are over !!!!!

No your wrong.Try playing cod4 starting from nothing it wasnt that hard to learn was it? now try playing Quake 3 from nothing.Compare it you will see the diffrence

Unreal Tournament FTW!!!

True story this new generation of FPS's are good for me to poop on

Go play GunZ online if you want to play a game that requires skill, nothing can compare to it.

i totaly agree ... im playing cod4 now but only at a skill of med+ and i must say quake and Enemy Territory takes allot more skill then cod4 , when i used to play E,emy Territory i maybe was med at a good day then went to play cod4 and i was allready med/med+ withing the 1st few weeks ( also my verry first cod game ever ) i also get shot often my ppl that are extremly low , if u get raped there nearly no way to respond and kill ur enemy... its basicly like this :
1) throw a tricknade , camp and preaim to where your opponents come from , shoot 5 times and opponent is dead.

or

2) throw nade , throw smoke, rush , rape/camp , shoot 5 times and opponent is dead.


when on quake or Enemy Territory it doesnt matter if u get raped , atleast u dont die from 2-3 bullets... its possible to turn arround and win by better aim easy , same for quake


tbh if i would play vs a noob on ET id prolly get 20-0 score easy
while if id play vs a noob on cod4 he only have to camp/rape me to gain a few kills it will be more like 20-5 then...


Ive also been saying that games only getting worse and worse , they only focuse in graphics and making profit while they should focuse on gameplay

gay

wtf i played bf2 and i play cod4 both on high skill.
if u say that there are no skilled players u most be on those public noob servers go fiind some highs or preinvite there definnetly skilled.
and oh u think omg in cod4 u can shoot through walls ye like if the americans in the real world cant.
and cod4 is in crap citys so buildings arent strong...
Jezus Christ al that fucking whine about it cuz they cant score at the game

For the cod-series, the skillgap in the game got for every release smaller and smaller.
Like remember those old days in cod1,Pro clans kicked your ass. For cod2 you still needed some skill but when cod4 came out every little aspect of skill faded. Cod4 and Mw2 isnt even exciting no more. Publics are shit and in privates its just about checking your map and get in some1's back before they do.
So for the real Cod-series gamers get your ass back to cod1 since thats what the game needs, more activity.

problem being that they are made for people to just jump into the game, not get pissed off at losing within 5 minutes, and therefore they buy the sequel.

but try coming back to q3a .. there are some ladders about. and plenty of different mods laying around !

dont think we would give you an easy ride though :P

Totally agree

Agree with the article. Apart from mohaa which was a really fun game I always preferred fast-paced games which required more skills and were providing real adrenaline fun such as the quake series and warsow.
I tried most of the new FPS like cod2, cs:s, mw2, etc. and even though I was doing alright on them I found them boring. I hate the fact that a noob can kill a good player. It takes a few hours to be alright. My 9 years old brother does kill streaks on mw2 and css; says enough...
No more new games based on skills these days, so it’s all about quakelive for me now

Best examples ever ! But you forgot about ProMode in Q3 :-] with eat all rest.

fuck sake learn to spell >.>

Check out the MohAA scene
This game is so old, and still so active.

All the guys here, are complaining about a game, which is requiring skill and ears and aim. This game, has it all.

Imo.

TACTICAL OPS is a FPS that needs a lot of skill

NOOB=================================PRO

Check out our ladders and TO ( almost same as CS ) used to be a mod on UT99 but went retail. Was in TOP 5 most played games online

Quake and maybe UT guys surely need to be more skilled than CoD and CS. But it's a whole different game. In CoD and CS you need a lot more teamplay, something you will earn with your experience and practice, just like the skill to play Quake. That's me speakin...

Hi!

It's just what you think is better. In a tough game there are less pro's which is good because the med skilled people have to push themselves more to get high / pro.
In an easier game (cod4) the skill is indeed closer to each other. What's so good about that you ask ... well more clans who can win the lan, more competition between the top teams.
And because the game is easier medskilled players won't get depressed for never getting near the skill of the pro players.

So imo both the oldskool games and the new games have good points and some bad points.

How come its the same people in every cod series game released at the top?

If the skill gap was as small as you think it is then the top players would be ever changing.

You wouldnt see the same names topping the list of lan winners either.

The game is general is easier, you're right about that;
but just becasue its easier, doesnt mean there isnt a skill gap.

Skill gap and simplicity are two completely differnt things, and I think you are confusing the two: one is how you describe something, and the other is how broad a spectrum is.

I'm totally agree, and that is the reason why I just play ol' school style games.

Just think a second: a QW/CPM/WSW pro's adaptation curve in other FPS is low compared the other way. How much time would a CS/COD or whatever-shitty-market-oriented-game pro need to learn just the movement skills? Hell, master bunny-hoop takes a loooong time, so don't think they will learn that, plus rocket predictions, rocket jumping, plasma climbing and all item timing quicker than an old schooler, it's just absurd.

Old Games:
[Dire]--------------------[Medium]-------------[High]--------[Pro]

New Games:
--------[Dire]---[Medium]---[High]---[Pro]------------------------

The players are not to blame. The new games themselves are not a real challange. Sure it takes some sort of practice to outmanuver a opponent in any game but you only get to test your skill if you play a worthwhile game in 1v1. I don't think there are any COD players who can time 3-4 items,predict opponent and have a awesome aim with 9 weapons.



Adapt...lol! The new games attact players and "pro" clans because they are money makers. Nobody is going to pay/sponsor anyone for playing UT99/Q3...but when it comes to some new crap game that has the highest eye candy graphics out on the market, pc developers will throw money to sponsor some events/clans to get the rest of the world to see that these games are played by famous people and such they should play it too by buying new better PC's and the game itself.



Those clans have always went after the money, the game dosent really matter. I doubt there are any gamers who played UT/q3 on those teams.



No, because they went after the money and not the quality of the game.





When a game that dosent insult my intelligence appears I will probably play it. Till then I stick to what I like and what I like is anything but brainless crouch+fire=hs=win.




You are a retard . Does the Olympic events ever change? Probably by your standars we should stop the running even and instead of running, use airplanes.

P.S. UT99=Best game ever.

and now MW2 won't have dedicated server. I saw it coming.

Fuck you IW, we PC gamers MADE you and now you stab us in the back.

I hope each and every one of you gets cancer in the wrists. foff.

totally agree with u. u need to play for like half a year to be competitive to the avarage public players + if u leave that game and come back after more then 2 mounts u will suck and u will need to train hard to be again at the same level u were when u left it.

I'd say being a pro on a game doesn't depend of the game itself.

Being a pro is beating every one. Not being good at a game.

Can be minesweeper, Cod4, quake or Tic Tac Toe, doesn't matter.

Bring back Cod 1 that was skill you had to learn how to aim how to listen how to think, there was no running around like a noob and spraying no if u did that in cod 1 u were #low in cod 4 u do that and ur high Basically i agree with 1 comment said , newer games are made easier to accomidate everyone which is good people and noobs and they did this well with cod 4....

Playing 'skilled' games (like q3,ut,etc.) against much lower player you just own him like a god.
In cod4 for example, every f***ing noob can kill you in your back, or throw a random granade straight on your head, no matter how pr0 you are. Thats makes me mad.

There was a game relased in 2006, called FEAR. Imho it was realy skilled fps. Aim and movement were the first and the second most important parts in combat Unfortunetly the game had too many bugs and after few months everyone started to use them. Community died fast : (

first of all, your full of crap i can see that :P also your the one that cares(carebear?)

geus he never played Halo or other games on MLG. what is a whole other scene then pc gaming..
and all the arguments are false. if ya look at halo and som of cod. or did he never played them with sound nor on a proper screen xD nor in a compitition.. ffs what a whiner.

the pc scene is dying thats a fact! to bad doh..

just true..

I think u (and every1 else for that matter) should try Warsow. New version just came out. Check warsow.net for download and trailer.

the best way to that the skill gap is lower now is simple in my time com CoD1 that pro's like PCG WHO OCRANA and other where that hight that the skill in frags was noticed at naked eye no in CoD4 every1 does the same type of frag the question is how often.

i have seen alot of movie of the CoD4 pro's only a hand full got the amazing skill i see in the old CoD pro's and is a shame ppl leaving cuz every1 now can kill spraying to the wall, jumping with scope on

and that is not talking about the cs 1.6 that made gaming noticed and started the frag movie mania

well i would say "delta force landwarrior"
there you atleast needed to learn how to aim.

Arent we forgetting about our dear old Unreal Tournament series? Especially UT99? That game requires alot of skill and reflexes, just like quake3.

Lets play a cod4 war then, and lets see if u need skill for the game

Same feeling here, bro.
Used to be q3 highskillad.
q3 started dying, went to cod2.
cod2 seemed SO easy compared to q3 and cod1.

And now...Cod4...LoL. RUN and SPRAY. That's what money has done to IW and other companies. They make games to sell, and there is no product maker to change it. Everyone in the industry is now to make "big bucks".

I'd love to come back to cod1. :/

My 2 cents:

You have skilled players and less skilled/fun players. Weither the game requires more or less skill, the skilled player would be better in both games. Even though a game is easier than another, multiplayer games are always about playing smarter than your opponent.

i just had a wonderfull example yesterday, we won against same ranked ppl 14:0 and they left cause they said we hack ... next match we lost 21:8 and they were extremely "pro" and they also had same points as we had. Whats this all about, between hack ppl and being hacked, ofc u never know who actually hacks in the internet.
But how can the difference on the same poitlevel be such a big difference, or is it simply luck who sprays better in one war ... i really don't get it ... time to play Aion

Amen to this.. similar to mohaa (cod2 example).


@ fROCUZ : In every game you need camping skills.. It's like in every game you need the skills to walk and press buttons.. it's natural.. tbh when you've played older shooters before cod4, trust me.. you know how to camp, specially if you have played clanwars.

I'd rather play Portal then CoD4 tbh, just because you need to use ur mind more then in CoD4.

Well you might think that you need no skill for cod4 but Camping is a skill too... maybe a lame skill but its a skill for sure.. And i guess that you have been pwned so many times in cod4 that you say no skill :S

+1

When did u get the top of the table in q3? Nowadays OR when its released? When Q3 is released, that game for us harder, u must harder to play to "go to the top of the table", but not nowadays. And CoD4: go up to a ranked server, and watch the stats of a player with an 55. level, it will negative..
Netram says older game was more unique..
CoD4: crosshairs, radar, uav, hitblip, perks (gl-md..) and many more same things that makes the game easier to play like no hud, no crosshair, no uav, and more environmental effects. In CoD2, when on server there is fog, so many players going down immediately, and not by low fps. And watch the tactical realism servers in CoDz, they are empty.. No iq gameing, just "spray".. (not on eu cups or same cups, but promods have all of things that i wrote upper - crosshair, ..). Why???

I think that you do need some kind of skill on newer games like COD4 and MOH because if you didn't you'd get raped. Oh yh like a few of the coments on here say something like this ' i went i cod4 and straight away got to the top of the table' this also happened with me when i went on Q3, found to so simple to use and actually alot easier than COD4.
This is just my opinion and am not wanting to start and argument

Yes, Shadow, the old fps games was funny and skilly..
The Wolfeinstein3D, Duke3d, the Doom series was fun, but released the Q3 and the "fps" is camed to a skill game. The another fps game, what is showed your true skill, it was(?) the CoD2.
So many "gamers" playing q3a and cod2 nowadays, but not CoD4, CoD4 is played by the "community"..
I hope the CoD:WaW follows the "skill's way".
And yes, Ekim, released now the ArmA II, and this situation is changed, u must use your reflex and brain again to reach the objectums.

So, all of todays shooters are rubbish? please try arma 2. please, i swear to, you try it. you will die so many times, in so many ways, from so few people that its not even funny. fight over 10 square kilometers, with very limited ammo, and dont get caught out in the open by choppers, and score one kill on a good practiced squad, and then make it out of effective range. you wont

Agree with the blog writer

I've started playing FPS since Doom 3D (duke nukem 3d, quake 1, quake 2..) I was a skilled Q3 player (instagib mostly though) after years of playing (and playing the shooters before Q3 helped aswell offcourse).

Now I play MoH:AA, and as soon as I started playing that game, the week it came out, I still was on top, and still am. (Though there is a big diffrence in skills level between the beginning of playing mohaa and now.. That progress has taken years)

I started playing CoD 4 (just to play with some m8's) and already I was holding my own in publics that were known for their ''skilled players'' offcourse I'm not saying that I owned the place, cause I just started playing when the game was out for several months to a year already, but I could hold my own, and I did not put much effort into the game afterwards.. but it indeed proved me that there is not much skill needed anymore for the new FPS.. which is to bad..

Actually did play a CoD4 pro once.. 1v1.. and although he did win.. it was still like.. 20-11 (not quite sure anymore, but similar to that score) then we played MoH:AA, and I actually could toy with him as much as I wanted.. he didn't get a single round, though I forgot the score.

Anyways, we need more old school games like Q3

Just remember even a game like Quake Live is dumbed down tremendously to accomodate the superficial need of newbies.

quakes are the most skilled games stop the useless comments

ofc you are not right

OMG totaly agree with u...

if u play quake u have skills but i dont play quake because there is too much those jumping stuff... its really annoying to me

OMFG u are noob. Im playing CS 1.6 for a long time! In CS 1.6 u have listen skills, movement skills, aim skills, nades skills, wall spamming skills, teamwork and much much more,...

But yea cs:s sucks.

thats so fuc**** truth men

Can't say i agree at all. Sure, CoD4 has more elements in it than for example Counter-Strike, but don't forget, the enemy's has it too..
When it comes to the Grenade indicators, ofc its easier to dodge nades, but it also makes it harder to kill.. That's why i think all FPS games requiers same skill to get rly good..

the only thing i see in this is that cod4 is more exciting to play for everybody? i dont really see this as a bad thing, besides the better team/player will still win 9 out of 10 times. whats the big point of all this "z0mg these games are 0 skill" whines?

well ur obviously not a pro cs player.

5quake players vs 5 cod4 players 21-1

"I'd love to see these so called console pro's come up against real pro's on PC"

15 year old boy spotted!

Yes mate, I fully agree with you! I noticed that in CoD4 it's more like a reflex than skill, when you get shot. Either that or camping.

[e]
Depends if you want REALISM or PURE OWNAGE. Personally I like pure ownage much more than realism.

sof2, nuff said.

Skilled players cook a grenade, so the indicator appears 0.1 second before you die! No runnin away then

BTW MOHAA (+spearhead) > all imo

agree with you!
cod2 was the last fps game which really showed player's skill!

in cod1 you just had to camp- stop telling crap

100% true, not just Quake though. UT1 requires alot of skill to play in the top unlike games as CoD and CS as u said.

It saddens me some posts

The main reason why you CAN actually compare the skills required for each game to master are as follow:

Quake took me YEARS of playing EVERYDAY to only flirt with the top.

If I had given only 1/16th of the effort Ive put into quake into something like Counter Strike, Id be on top in a matter of 2 months.

Point made.
Try quake once if you never did, seriously, I suggest you try quakelive and if you score ONE frag against one of the top quakelive duellers after 6 months of practice, I will bow to you. And you're allowed to be a "pro" in any of these retarded wargames of nowadays, it wont matter :].

And stop saying counter strike is 'oh so tactical and teamplay shit'... Even in teamplay and tactic quake is 50.000 steps ahead...

And I actually played these games so I obviously know, and I can say that most of the people here obviously havent tried quakes...

I see there are lots of fan of FPS games based on older engines: UT99(TacOps), Q3->/SOF2.

And i noticed it in our community too (Q3UT4) that we're getting more folks actively playing this game again, probably going free as stand-alone has a great deal to do with that.

Lots of modern FPS games seems more to be about impressing the gamers with all kind of gadgets features to lure them to play it. Which most of the time makes the game easier to get a kill with.
The more tactical oriented games, like COD4, seems to encourage the average Gamer Joe playing it to camp it up waiting kills to happen on your ass instead of actually go about and kill some people. Those of you that have played Duke3D knows what i'm talking about.

I think fast paced FPS games are indeed the most fun and satisfying to play casually or competitively.
Q3UT4, or also called UrT or UrbanTerror, has the nice blend of Q3 fastpaced all-over-the-map-jumping kinda feel to it with realistic weapons as arsenal plus some additional moves like powersliding (Q4MP) or walljumping that makes it quite unique gameplay for just random pubbing (easy) to more challenging clanwars matches vs other high skilled teams.

Did i already mentioned the game is free and has an active playing community?

sof2 forever idd

Doesn't matter if you think it's less skilled today, i agree it's a lot on the hud etc and i personally enjoyed cod1, cod2 a lot more than cod4 but still no matter how casual the most skilled player + luck(you're lucky if you're good you don't luck yourself to a whole war win) wins no matter what game really.

Otherwise we'd all be pro's wouldn't we? But we're not...
Some people win more and some people lose more, if you can't handle it , get better?

Skill & Casual exists in just about anything on earth wither you like it or not

ur right m8
I can remember good old CoD1 times, in CoD1 way more skill was needed.

im lolin at ppl who say ye cod4 fail lul

cod 1 to 4 is same shit game lmfao they are all low skilled games why?
cus the only thing u need to do is
Aim get ur ass behind a object and stick out ur head and shoot

ut/quake have a whole alot more to think about while ur movin around
but at the end some players like quake/ut and others like slow ass game play from cod1 to 4

to bad not many decent games are coming out
its all about realistic shit nowadays realistic game speed realistic damage taken and go on



jup <3 ut to bad rolled in a waaaaaaaaaay to late

SOF2 forever

you can also admit u suck on cod4.. best cod afther cod1..

Go play ET guys, cod4 sucks monkey balls

Unreal 2004 - best game ever made rofl

The older Quake games rule when it comes to skill. CoD4 is abysmal on that subject. The rest are somewhere in between.

U dont played Cod2 dont you?

there's much gametypes etc, so su and think as the only one whos thinking that way, ur just begin old, old and lonely

I can honestly say that i beat u all in ps3 cod 4 , beacause im true pro. not just shooting around, using my brains to get the enemies dead with out dying

If you dislike the new games, which obviously are more about graphics than anything else (imo) try Quake 3, Warsow, UT:GOTY (99) or UT2004.
Fast paced shooters, where you are in need of real skill, since these games are about aiming, movement, teamplay, timing, just everything.
I'm a UT2k4 player myself and tried CS as well, and trust me, there is a huge gap between real skill in UT and CS. You are in need of good reactions and aiming in CS as well, but that's nothing against UT/Quake/Warsow.
I'm playing it since 2005 (with some months of inactivity) and still don't have a chance versus the high-skilled pros; in CS you would be one yourself after 4 years of gaming (minus the inactivity months).
What's cruel is, the majority thinks of these fast paced shooters as games without tactics. But as a matter of fact the team with the best aim -and movement in the fast paced shooters- (not tactic) wins, the most kills naturally lead to the win - and that's usual for every shooter, otherwise it wouldn't be a shooter.
So it's just the same in UT/Quake/Warsow as it is in CoD/CS/BF.
aim (movement) > teamplay > tactic - imo

pls define "skill" first - i play halo and think u must be skilled to get a good ratio

-.-

i disagree with you...

most of you talk about cod4 so i'll take it as my example.

there is still a huge skill gap between boons and the elite players. look on the top 10 in the 5on5 leagues... 95% of you us will not even have the possibility to win against those machines...

laming about standard wallbangs? haha...
look on cs 1.6... before i played cod4 i played cs 1.6. there were such as many standard wallbangs as in cod4. why do you whine about that and call it easy and noobish play. the real top teams still play on another level of skill...

I couldn't read the whole thing. That would take a lot of patience and time that I don't really have. But I'll make my point quick and simple:

You're damn right. The "evolution" from CS to CS:S is the best example. A mild player in 1.6 kicks ass in CS:S. A leet player gets called a cheater cause headshots are so god damn easy to get. I've seen people argue that when the game gets easier, skill is more defined. Because if you were leet and get an easier game, you should own. And you do. Until you don't: When you go from playing CS to playing COD4 for example, you own COD4. Try playing COD4 for a few hours and going back to CS. You suck! You got used to the easy and don't bother to aim and shoot in quick short bursts. You suddenly can't play CS for sh*t until you get used to it again. Play easy games for long enough and you'll lose most skill....
Textbook.

So why aren't you lot all playing Warsow? "Gameplay > Graphics" but only when posting leet comments on CB? Zzzz. Stop being elitist dunces and Go. Play. Games.

come and play Tactical Ops - former UT99 mod, now standalone
now THIS IS A REAL GAME! u want tactics? that's a game where you need aim, movement and teamplay! u lack one - you die

best FPS ever! ut99 engine > all


edit: if u download, make sure you upgrade to version 3.5
( inofficial patch )

frag ya!

I play cod4 and you are right^^ cod4 doesn't need much skill... once i tryed counterstrike i noticed that cod4 aim = sprayeraction... but cod4 is still a funny game^^

I am UT1 gamer for ages, and i must admin that youre right man. Its funny that even this game isnt getting dumber and dumber but actually UT1 community keep on pushing limits every year by new ideas of frags, new style of maps, new mods to play.
When UT started we had CTF, DOM (something like king of the hill with more points), TDM, Assault, DM and we were happy about it. But after years, we are still able to push limits so hard, that we have totaly high-end BT maps now, we introduced mix between strategy and fps called siege mod, new combinations of all mods together etc etc...
Funny is, that we dont need new sequels of game, since we still feel, after 10 years, that there is something new to create, new thing to learn, new tricks to perform, still on the same old engine, on same old graphics.

I havn't read all the replies to this so Don't flame if this has already been spoken about...

I agree that games have somewhat become more friendly to the masses, I.e. the Call of duty Series.

Vcod Vanila game, more arena style i.e. You, your gun, your healthbar.

Cod2 similar but slightly tweaked aspects such as regen health

Cod4 the full shibang shooting through walls (which makes people get kills even if they arent aiming at just the persons arm/head like in cod1/2 when they are leaning from a wall.

But the fact is, as the game gets easier, its also easier for everyone else. If you understand my point. If you take a simple First person shooter with one gun which takes 3 shots to kill a guy. Then you change it so it takes one shot to kill a guy with a huge hitbox then yes, the game is technically 'easier' but does that necessarily mean it is easier for Competetive play? because your opponent has just the same changes as you? So maybe when games are easier that is when skill is more defined.

But I do agree partly, I still play Cod2 because I was bored of CoD4 the shots and fast take downs just don't seem to mean anything when it feels just so bloody easy.

bf42 was the skillgame!!!

Mr.D! <3

Heh ..I did'nt even finish reading what it says... or even the posts.. try "ut1".. even faster then q3 quake series ---> q2 ftw and anyone that thinks he pwnz in new games .. I'm sory for him.. there are hidden skilled ppl in older games.. I tryed ut3 and its pathetic what I can do to the new gamers .. even more pathetic would be.. to let the other pwnge ppl from the ut1 comunity play it.. so join the qnet irc channel's #ut1 and #ut1.tdm #unreal.vip and #M][B that have the most activeity... and try your luck .

I've never played quake but I think cod2 is game to get skill in as well. all modern shooters from cod2 onwards suck imo

Oh and come on, if there were no such inventions as COD4, you would be still playing Quake 3 and MOHAA... Yes I agree - Quake 3 is all about skill...but I played it as much as COD4 and CS and I can say every of those games has something that others don't and that makes them good. I love railing and rocket jumping, strafing etc as much as I love the stylish COD4 gameplay with modern combat tactics. I don't wanna die with Quake please xD

In the real life you could fast turn your head to a big degree without moving your weapon, plus you could sense the grenade falling next to you. Since it would be too hard to implement a dozen more keys for that, it's the reason you have such indicator. Don't forget that the enemy has such indicators too

+1

imo if you want to play a game with real skill, as far as i can tell UT/Quake are the best games to see real skill and experienced players who've got good only after playing for 3-5 years. I've been playing UT2004 now for 2 years and i'm still only mid skill. i've been lucky enough to play with good players who were willing to let me play with them/spec them, so i learnt many things there. Reading articles on clanbase about FPS games leaves the impression that you can become good, e.g high skill only after a few weeks/months of playing, e.g COD4. In UT2004 for example, all you have at the beginning of a match is an assault rifle and a shield gun, you have to go around the map looking for weapons and then time them if you're playing TDM for e.g. There are also powerups to time and map knowledge ect. UT2004 takes years of putting shitloads of effort into playing to get any decent skill. It's the only pc game i've ever played and will be the only game that i'll play. COD4 and similar games suck, noobs can easily kill you which would never happen oldskool games. I know i haven't got any experience in other games as i've said. My little brother who's 14 plays COD4 on Ps3 and to me it looks fking boring, lets be honest.

i wrote exactly the same on another article too

Too bad ET is underrated everywhere.

KUDOS to this thread! ut99 is the best for skill !

Totally right. Where the Medal of Honor series and the CoD1 versions were all about aim... the cod2 version starts with the red dot on the radar, the indicator, and hp-regeneration. Another bad part of the game was that the whole level (as for example Toujane) can be naded from the spawn. With a 2 minute round limit and spawnnading the fun left... and especially the need of aim and teamplay!

I can't comment on Quake/Unreal, as I haven't played those

I totally agree.

Mohaa is still the best fps shooter there is. Cod4 is more a game of "who sees who first" and good camping.

Unfortunately Mohaa is infested with hackers and therefore most honest, old school and skilled players dont play anymore, only on private servers.

If you talk about a combination of aiming, running, listening, moving etc, then old school games like quake and mohaa demand much more from you then modern games.

I also played the oldschool quake, CS and (still) Mohaa, and i regret the fact that in COD4 my "skills" are quite useless. This fact irritates me ( and im sure a lot of players share that opinion ).

COD4 is for ALL gamers, not only hardcore fps'ers and thats a fact we have to live with unfortunately. Hopefully there will be a game in which you actually need skills to play it.

Nevertheless, we shouldnt forget the fun element though. It's all about the fun, that should be the main reason we play games.

Maxi_nl

Haha : have you ever seen somebody in real life clip or selfspec ?

no? uh

games who are realistic never have such a kick ass gameplay

mohaa4ever (i wish dmw would think like that to)

cs1.6
mohaa
quake

!!!!LOVE!!!!!

yes thats a good idear! best game ever made and skills are necessary!
what a bummer it in exchange got a lack of support...

Ohh but there is. With a grenade indicator all you need is to look at the arrow and move away.

Without grenade indicators you must use your sense of sound to listen where it landed and move away accordingly. There is NO REASON for grenade indicators. Maybe if you was wearing a nanosuit from Crysis you'd have an excuse.

Just little things like this that make the game easier that shouldn't be there. It's just like the minimap bips too when someone fires. You should have to use your sense of sound to listen where they are shooting from, not have the game play it for you and show you.

well whiners who cry about lack of skill in such blogs usually cant achive nothing. Cry me a river

play mohaa then xD

i think this area of subject can have gone more into detail, some of the guns actually require more skill and the fact that the new promod has messed up the whored gun alot of people are shit now which makes the skill levels bigger now.

i find that all the call of duties are easier to play then any other games,

yeah aka is right

so let the good times rule ^^

i citate :"The game has so many elements on the hud like grenade indicators"

however there isn't any skill needed to see your near a grenade and just walk away, there is when you play vs skilled players who throw it over buildings so when it actually is on your radar you're already too late .. ofcourse i agree there is less skills needed then before but dont say its all gone peace out

or addiction lol to become good at old school games.

But yeh I think this is true . Im not a big fan of shooters atm since lag is gay but i would say just an example not like i care but its just a thing im writing

People say to you Oh i bet i could beat you at Call of duty 4 on (ps3 or xbox 360 i know its console but it still applies slightly since skill is probably even less on console). I play them they own the game have completed it and have quite good stats online. I play them and the score is 20-4 to memy first game or whatever

On ut they play me 20 min idm or something and its 150+ to about 5 of there score so it is true :0

Also if i play a UT 'good' player they own me

On COD if i play a cod 'good' player they beat me but I still do relatively well

Lets all start playing delta force 1/2 that was the shit

Couldnt agree more.

Quake and UT is and will always be the fastest and most competative game. its not hard to become good in todays fps...

they will never make it coz that would be the best fps game ever

Couldnt agree more, nice one someone passed me Combat Arms, this new free fps shooter... took me 1 hour n from then on i was 1st or 2nd on every map... n after 2 hours of play i stopped. Bored. Ur hud is STUFFED with info... where's the skill in the game :S.

I play tacops.. no map/overview with nades n enemies/friends, no healthpacks, nothing what indicates where the bullets came from, no respawn if u die with a invulnerabilty period... just a normal fps

its easy...the mass decides, back at the UT/Quake/CS days people didnt have too much choice (comparing etc) nowadays its a mess...publischers only look at sales they dont care about what players play their game...if the game is "skilled" etc but only 10% will buy it...and on the other side the game is "easier" and 30% will buy it...the choice is made...and in the end its all about the $$$ :P

so stop cryin...and play what you want to.

so true before it took real determination and effort to become good at games but now its just 2 easy.

look at the list in cod4 the teams most clans on top are med skilled with just good tac nades and whoring of no skilled guns

I am sorry to hear your on your way donw and that you can't onw them any more

TRUE!
I practiced UT2004 for about 1 year to become a mid-skilled player, but in COD4 I rule after a month...

i couldnt agree more with this blog.

just my opinion,
excelent quake 3 players: gaming gods

there are a lot of people here who aren´t aware
of the skill required to play this game well.

But i think, every game has its uniqueness,
and its own skill perspective.
Those CS AWP zoomless shots are awesome

The way we're heading you won't be playing games in the future the game will play YOU!
Just so any dimwit can be pro o/

Sorry to say I have to agree to all what Netram's said... Todays games are made easy so alot of people will play em. if they were difficult people wouldn't care cuz learning TAKES TIME and thats not what you wanna spend on a game to get good at it (for some reason). They are also made with AW3S0ME GRAPHIXX so that every1 will just know by looking at the game how l337 it is. The feeling to the game tho don't matter... Its just sad really ;\

Wow, I thought I was the only person who came to that conclusion. Halleluja.

the only "old school" game i liked was CS and now i play COD4. the "pro" stuff i learned from CS helped me extremely much in COD4 and i do agree that COD4 is a bit easier to master but its much more realistic and concrete than CS. whats the problem with regen????? i guess the people that have taken part in real combat know it - when you're hit you're either down our you barely notice. the grenade indicator is a very important thing in COD4 because the nades are very small, like the Offensive grenade in REAL LIFE and the COD4 environment is so rich that u can barely see such tiny things. Even on the pro scene i've seen players look up in the sky for nades. Arch/Stopping nades are one of the sexiest things about COD4. Come on, nobody has 100HP.........

I think this sums it up perfectly:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=n7VAhzPcZ-s

You want skill FPS? why dont you try

unreal tournament : game of the year edition

aka ut99

agree

All gaming industries are becoming heavily money orientated..

Companies are going for "what sells" more and more. This is hitting the MMO genre really badly lately.

On topic, companies want to ensure they appeal to a wide audience to get sales, and with FPS games that means lowering the skill level so that anyone can jump on and do well.

http://www.own3d.at/watch/annihilation,10049.html

I'm not a Q3 player but I really have to say, that is the probably the most difficult game to master properly. UT is a step lower being a little bit slower movment, but it has the best CTF mod ever.

Seconded. Play moar wsw, thats where the skill still remains!

What a load of rubbish, coduo didn't have any of these things, particulary rifle only which required reactions and skill only. COD4 does not take much less skill because it has HUD and radar, and nade indicator doesn't make a difference unless your playing retards that can't cook nades. These things just add to the game and you have to learn to use them, not whine and say old games required more skill, which is obviously untrue.

People claim they're pro because they are dire, how are you not getting this?

discussion closed

www.warsow.net :>

its a fucking opinion imo.. -,-

its a fucking game ! who cares! dont like it dont play it imo!

What I get when playing cod4 or 5, is that I am desperately longing back to cod2, so I quit and start playing cod2 again and it feels like a weight taken off my shoulders. The fact that there are so many people playing those games with high scores in servers, deeming themselves as pro while they are actually sneaky assholes who can only achieve scores by shooting through walls and things like grenade dropping at death etc.
Every second I play I am irritated by the lack of skill.

search skill? go MOH:AA =d

this is shit

lol just no comment to todays games... i think todays shooters are annoying... their graficaly superb.... and gamewise - skillwise just nooblike.... sad but true....

so how badly did you get smashed for you to have to come and make a huge rant blog?

SEKO wrote:
cod4 player vs quake3 player in cod4, what will be score 21/12
quake3 player vs cod4 player in quake3 score will be 21/0
totally agree.


Thats probably the the biggest piece of crap i have ever heard ..
noway a quake3 gamer would ever get 12 points vs a good cod4 player, wow dude.. that just make no sense ...

I really hope rtcw2 will be good. i think its gunna take some skill to master that just like in rtcw

Tis be teh truth =f

Same here, installed and deinstalled uncounted (new) games, only (original) UT has always stayed on my PC from the beginning. And it won't change that soon :E

IF YOU DONT LIKE NEW GAMES PLAY CS 1.6, ITS VERY HARD TO HIT ANYTHING, NO GRENADE INDICATORS, NO ENEMIES ON THE RADAR.

OR WHY DONT U PLAY YOUR PRECIOUS QUAKE?


and this one is funny cause its true ^^

That isn't true Ree, in my opinion. They do make nice MP gameplay, but it's just different than what you're used to. Was the same for me with the switch between CoD2 and CoD4. When I first tried CoD4 I thought: man, this is shit, and continued playing CoD2 for a couple of months. It turned out to be so much fucking better than CoD2. I tried to play CoD2 a while ago, I thought it sucked. So it's just getting used to the new game and it will rock.

I personally blame fucking new Call of Duty sequels.
Played cod1 for a long time and all the next go for graphics instead of mp gameplay.

I'm not going to read all these comments, but this is the first I found that matches my opinion. CoD4 isn't about the aiming no, and that isn't a problem at all imo, while you state it is. It's not about the aiming in these games, it's about the tactics, the millisecond faster reaction time and so on. It's teamplay, public is boring in CoD2 and CoD4, matches are IT, because it's about the teamplay there.

Also, if you're dire, you won't headshot anybody while peeking less than a second around a corner. When you're good, you can. So that'd be a difference in aiming skill..

...word

s4pro

I srsly couldt agree more with you
Respect for someone finaly saying this

True True Trueee

hmmm

@Mikko

A lot of valid points, but I really do have the impression that a lot of players of "old - school" - shooters mean mainly dexterity when they say skill. Thats also how I always understood it. A lot of people use skill in a much broader sense now, leading to misunderstandings when somebody states CoD 4 doesn't require much skill, when he probably means it doesn't require much dexterity when compared to certain other shooters. But I could be wrong.

And I do believe that CoD 4 is much more accessible to beginners then Quake, UT or RtCW/W:ET. Because its very intuitive, you shoot somebody somewhere and he goes down fast, to avoid that happening to you, you must use cover extensively. That's how everybody would expect a firefight to be. RtCW/W:ET are not only faster, the opponents take three headshots, and good players also strafe left and right or dance around an opponent while shooting at his head. Sure, in CoD 4 there is the recoil and you have to use iron sights often, but with many weapons its enough to spray in the direction of the enemy, especially in close combat. When you have the tactical advantage over an enemy (you fire first, you are behind him etc.), you win. In more dexterity - oriented shooters that alone is not enough to beat an opponent.

I played UT Quakes CS's WoW's COD's
If I keep playing UT there's a one only reason; the other games are not as exciting, camping farming and spamming ain't that good imho

i would like to see cod4's activity within 5-10 years when new cod's have been released,

i cant comment on Q3's recent activity since i havent played it over quite some years but i do play UT:GOTY and i still think that its the best game released in it's serie, if not overall but thats just a personal opinion.
whether its instagib, normal weapons, CTF or DM the skill difference is still massive ( some times frustrating when a game is 10 years old and there are still noobs around )

Both games require skill but just in a different way, where as UT and Quake mainly require Aim / Movement, Cod4/CS rely on Mapknowledge / Enemy movement prediction.

Yeah, I dont think anyone is saying that Cod4 is the ultimate dexterity shooter, and besides the argument wasn't just about the dexterity, it was about cod4 and other new shooters in general.

But since you obviously want to talk about dexterity, think about sniping or G4 or m14 on cod. I'd say they require just about as much aim and dexterity as any gun on unreal tournament. I haven't played the unreal games since the first tournament, so can't be certain of course.

But when talking about those games in general, of course the skill in those quake games relies a lot on aiming and perhaps even more than cod4 or cs for example, but that doesn't mean they are easier for beginners or anyone. Aiming is just one part of an fps-game. For example teamwork, tactics, using smokes and flashes correctly, winning tight situations with tight time-limits, making plans takins risks. Just because the weight in gameplay isn't just on shooting at fast moving targets doesn't mean the pro players aren't just as skilled.

Therefore those 1on1 comparisons are also useless, since cod4 is obviously a teamwork based game and quake isn't, at least not in the same way.

And oh yeah if anyone here is talking about based on their knowledge about public, dont bother. Cod4 is A MASSIVE game compared to these quakes and unreals nowadays, and therefore an average public player on cod4 plays the game an hour per week and the average quake player plays the game 10 hours a week. Therefore of course cod4 is an easier game for a total beginner, more players, more beginners and noobs.

They released four UT - games from 1999 to 2007, thats one game every two years...

And the railgun is not the only thing that takes skill in Quake, there is air-rockets, strafe - jumping, plasma - climbing...

And what you call "spam" still requires more dexterity then the spam in CoD 4. First of all the opponents in Quake move way faster then in CoD, second of all you need to hold the crosshair directly on the opponent and follow every move instead of just spraying in the general direction of the slow moving opponent. When Quake Live finaly gets released you all can try that out for yourselfes, try to play on severs with a higher skill level then yours, and you will see...

Also try out insta - gib, then you will see why calling a certain gamemode in CoD 4 "hardcore" seems so laughable to many...

You can say what you want, CoD 4 (as well as other modern shooters like TF2 or BF2) just isn't about dexterity as shooters like Quake, UT or RtCW/W:ET are, which doesn't mean it is a bad game or doesn't challenge the player, it just doesn't challenge the player in a way a lot of people here want to be challenged by. I really hope ID get their act together, as Epic seems to cater only to the console crowd from now on, ID is the only hope for shooters that are about dexterity...

quoted for truths.

Netram I'm gonna be honest with you!

Your right when it comes to the game mechanics. I rate you for that
And the lack of skill required in games. The fact is, games are nothing but graphics. No mechanics
Take Pro Evolution Soccer 2008 (and i know it has nothing to what you've compaired it to but hear me out)
When I first got this game I thought it was gona be awesome, instead I got a sh*t excuse of a football game where the referee blows his whistle when you shoot and yet the CPU player falls on the floor like an ass. Where on attacking plays you can randomly be called for a handball challenge and yet somewhat, when outside of the penalty box you can hit the ball with your hand and nothing will happen
It's a game where the mechanics don't matter no more
My only hope is that games like Call of Duty: World at War, people that make stuff like ProMod and that, keep doing what they do best, because if I have to play LAN matches with perks I really think I will kill somebody that uses matyrdom are some stupidity like that

The point is, there are more noobs than pro gamers. People don't like this... they think that the pro gamers take advantage of the game mechanics because they're too CRAP (and I mean it) to find it for themselves
Game developers want more noobs to play. Because they're easy to persuade to buy the game. Guarentee 2/3rds of the pro gamers only buy the game because it's the latest sequel and they KNOW that the next challenge is going to be waiting for them there.
Even the single player has gone far overboard where it's evolved from plain slaughter of war (like cod1 sinple player) to some shit like epic story where some bald headed geezer seems to have lost his arm to the gun you use in multiplayer which you can kill somebody in 1 hit aiming at their f*cking feet!
Who is now on the rampage on seeking revenge in somewhat people 'stealing' their 'mother-land'

This is why we get comments like these:

"The problem is most of these arguments are never really going to be taken seriously by developers because they just sound so disgustingly lame:
"I'd love to see these so called console pro's come up against real pro's on PC"
I'm sorry but that line alone makes you sound like a pre-teen who's dedicated most of his life to computer games and is angry that the market is targetting "casual gamers"."

"What you're stating as a problem is actually one of the reason why CoD4 is attracting so many people.

Not the people that played other shooters before and had a simple cross entry. No, people that are new to (online-)gaming in general can get into the game on a kinda low level. They will not lose their fun being bashed by better players, because better players simply do not play those publics. They get their goodies and motivation with the levels and rpg elements and some of them will get into the competetive scene sooner or later. Which is very good for our game because is keeps activity high, which then keeps sponsors focused at the game, etc."

Here's a question for everybody who's commented on this blog
Do you really think Activision give a shit if you stop playing Cod4?
They've already goten your 30 quid. They've done the job, the problem is, the level of attraction is no longer gameplay. It's graphics, this is why it's come onto the xbox and ps3
They promote graphics. Now the priority in games are

[Graphics]
l
[Game Price]
l
[Interaction]
l
[Gameplay]

There is now close to no priority in gameplay, activision thinks that a bunch of perks and the strive for public players trying to get level 55 will keep them busy enough.
But how much thought did they put into this?
Why have a Old School mode? Who the fuck uses old school?
I don't and I've never found a server that plays that either, and if they call THAT old school then I wana know where that game type came from.

I can easily predict Activision falling soon, not because they don't take priority in what the players that play the game for gameplay want. But because it's clearly obvious that this company is getting FAR AHEAD OF THEMSELVES
http://clanbase.ggl.com/news.php?nid=297847
Perfect example, why are they (as in activision, infinity ward and all of those) flaring on about call of duty 6 when call of duty 5 isn't even out yet?
Two words

Utter stupidity

Well, the PC - beta for CoD:WaW started, but I didn't get a key yet. I am curious if that game requires more dexterity then CoD4...

And no, I am not looking down on games that are more about tactics and such, they just do not hit my taste, but seem to dominate the market...

+1

absolutely true... i only wonder if its really a bad thing....... ... if theres less to learn ... its all about perfectionising...... its like comparing football vs 100m sprint athletics

There is no Teamspeak on (most) ffa's ¬_¬

Teamspeak? -_-"

I can give another example here for the UnrealTournament players. The experienced players in UT even use the death messages as info source. Example you had seen your teammate leaving 10 seconds ago (you def. he att.) in a certain direction when you read he got killed by xy. You use this info to determine how far your enemy is an which way he takes.
Those and similar things that need a lot of experience made older games like UnrealTournament exciting and improved the long term motivation. Because it needs time to learn them.

Sorry for doublepost :f

That's likely, could also replace Q3 by UT which is from the same 'generation'.

I have the feeling easier games are always more successful than games where it is harder to keep up with the upper skill-level players. Comparing Quake and UnrealTournament with CoD and WoW underlines this assumption.

totally agree.

perfect example is cod4 idd

Most of your arguments are quite invalid, some are valid such as hit detector and perks, but they have been removed in promod. Health regeneration doesn't really make the gap any smaller in my opinion, it just a different way of doing the health in a game, and I think it's good that games are versatile. Besides for people who want to play quake-like games, they release a new unreal tournament nearly every year.

Yes of course most of the guns are inaccurate and sometimes spraying is the only option, but same goes for the guns in thequake games as well, if you think of them objectively.

On cod, you need aim and reflexes (on some guns less and on some guns more), but just to keep it interesting and versatile it has a lot positioning and tactics aswell. Do a quake 3 match with 5 veterans versus 5 beginners and see if the gap is as big as if you do a similar match on cod4. Narrow-minded to think that FPS-games have to be just about reflexes and aim.

rofl another one of these fuckin pointless gripes.

I like ur example about quake yep .. the models n sounds really skilled.. set ur model to the big ass clunky robot, set it to pink and yellow skin colour for enemy models, hear em and see em a mile off ... fuckin skilled is that,

"thats an enemy" ... as this big fuckin pink and yellow clunky blurr goes across ur screen.

Only thing skilled about quake is the fuckin railgun... the rest is just spam spam spam spam strafe strafe strafe spam spam spam spam.

Just play the game u fucking play and quit pointlessly taking digs at other games, use the time u spent making this pointless post to do something more constructive .. like jump under a fucking bus.

what a twat

FPS games nowadays are less about dexterity (especially ones that are released on consoles too, having to use thumbs!). I find this sad, as I quite liked how you had to have lightning-fast reflexes and steady aim for Quake II and such. Whereas in games nowadays, all the weapons just have a random spread and it's more about luck when it comes to that aspect (the skill isn't about aiming or reflexes anymore).

Personally, I'm not a fan of newer FPS games (post Quake). Sure I can appreciate that they require a very "different" skill set, but fundamentally they're made the way they are because it appeals more to a casual audience (so they sell more). If my grandad were to sit down and play CoD4 on a public server, I'm sure he'd get a few kills. If he sat down and played any of the Quake games (again, on a public server), he'd get zero and never play it again. Enough said :P

I don't really see why all these people argue for their favourite recent FPS games (i.e. that they require more skill etc)... there isn't really much of an argument, it's just a different game that's all, that requires A LOT less dexterity and reflexes, but more about other skill sets.

I read someone complaining about the lacks of maps for UT3, diesel is the best map that came out of this genre since deck16.

And a few thoughts about public servers and skill. Playing on a high level in UT3 is very different from spamming on ffa servers but the real treat is that people who spam on ffa servers will have a hard time when it comes to getting better at the competative forms of deathmatch (tdm and duel).

i think you must have real "skill" to be high in ut or quake

im playing ut2004 for about 18 months now and if i play css with a few friend (which also play css for a long time) im not rly worse than them...but if i want them to play ut with me...i suppose a 1 on 4 or some crap...they dont want to...because they cant aim, move, time (wtf is timing???), or even control a whole map

and if i see those...100k dollar prices in css im always getting a bit angry...those lowskiller get so much money...something went terribly wrong there

imo your absolutely right netram

Then go back to CoD1 and or Quake...

@perks:

perks=unlock?

BattleField 2?

bf2 public=unlock?

if their is 1 game out their that is dominatited by unlocks/perks it is bf2, cod4 is just a cheap bf2 rip off, stuff like unlocks, ranks, vehicles etc are all ripped from bf2...

cod4 was no were near the first game with perks/unlocks...

@guy who said bf2 is only tactic and no skill: if u give insta headshot u dont need tactics @all.... @ cod4 u can win with camping and tactic with bf2 u (a lot of) need shooting skill (and reg) to win from any med+ clan...

@bf2 u win if u have: reg>shooting skills> teamplay> tactics.

ur tactics can be uber pr0, without reg u wont make a chance...

well played.

cod4 player vs quake3 player in cod4, what will be score 21/12
quake3 player vs cod4 player in quake3 score will be 21/0

Developers view game 'setting' as more of a priority. It's called making a game 'life like'

Sorry, but if devs wanted their games to be "life like" they wouldn't have nade indicators and regenerating health.



CoD1 wasn't like that. CoD2 was like that because it was a console focused (hence lack-of-skill required) game



Shadowrun did it before them



You're thinking about UO. UO was shit.



But not CoD1.



Seriously, what the fuck. I get whined at for comparing CoD4 to Quake, then when I take the EXACT SAME FRANCHISE THAT GOT NOOBIFIED TO FUCK I get told to compare it to something completely irrelivant.

Developers view game 'setting' as more of a priority. It's called making a game 'life like'

Tottally irrelavent... only a new player would throw a nade without cooking. Guarentee anybody with good game knowledge would intend to release the nade so it explodes before you can react



Again developers try to make the game life-like. If an arguement like this was against Cod2 you might of made a point because red dots appear when you shoot in that also. Therefore it's not game setting it's carrying what many preferred on to the sequel



Obviously you never played Cod2 or you would know this was exactly the same. Stop complaining



Does it take much logic to realise the perk system was NEW to call of duty. They're trying to make the game unique



Even thought netram's view is true as far as I remember Cod had the ARTILERY, how many of noobs like you whined about that? And on top of that it was time-based not when you get 6 or 7 kills in a row.



Try a better excuse, again carried on from CoD2



Go back to Cod1, select the nade hold it and press secondary fire... keep holding it and see what happens! Or better yet :P keep hold of a REAL nade and see what happens



Can't comment about this one without laughing. What time is cod:world at war based? Doesn't it still have perks in it? Hmm theres your faith out the window

Netram my quote has ur opinion in it but ISNT aimed at ya
I cba to look for the original poster so meh

I hardly think the [original] poster of this knew what cod had in it
You're better off comparing cod4 to css. You might have more luck

"unreal tournament ctf nw, best and most skilled game ever!"

yes, UT is still hard even after years of gameplay. STILL KICKASS ACTION and even better than quake was ever.

"unreal tournament ctf nw, best and most skilled game ever!"

yes, UT is still hard even after years of gameplay. STILL KICKASS ACTION and even better than quake was ever.

totally agree

You're compareing game setting with game mechanics. Game mechanics should come first.



Just... wow. You must be deaf. a Stereo headset / 2 speakers is fine.



You're compareing game setting with game mechanics. Game mechanics should come first.



True, so why leave it out on PC?



I know, 'cause it's true.



IIRC There was aeroplanes in WW2.

Again, you're compareing game setting with game mechanics. Game mechanics should come first.


CoD4 has regenerating health. vCoD didn't. - FAIR POINT, BUT TRY COMPLETING IT ON 'HARDENED' WITHOUT IT[/quote]

lol singleplayer



Granted, nade cooking can be done right, but nades are too powerful in CoD to be cookable.



You're compareing game setting with game mechanics. Game mechanics should come first.

COD4 is fast and entertaining. There is no way I could go back to a slow game. vCOD and COD2 remind of Rainbow 6 they are that slow.

COD4 v COD1 ? What a poor comparison.....

CoD4 has next to no recoil. vCoD did. - OLD SCHOOL WEAPONS GENERALY HAVE MORE OF RECOIL
CoD4 has a grenade indicator. vCoD didn't. - HOW ELSE YOU MEANT TO KNOW WHERE IT LANDED UNLESS YOU HAVE SURROUND SOUND ?
CoD4 has minimap bips to show where enemies are. vCoD didn't. - NEVER HEARD OF A UAV ?
CoD4 has no pistol slot or grenade slot. vCoD did. (My guess is this is because it's easier for console pads to have 1 button to switch weapons and 1 button to throw a grenade) - CONSOLES SUCK FOR FPS ANYWAY
CoD4 has unbalanced perks. vCoD didn't. - CANT COMMENT ON THIS ONE
CoD4 has choppers and helicopters. vCoD didn't (Pub only, but still.) - ITS A MODERN DAY GAME vs WORLD WAR II - OF COURSE COD WOULDNT HAVE HELICOPTERS
CoD4 has regenerating health. vCoD didn't. - FAIR POINT, BUT TRY COMPLETING IT ON 'HARDENED' WITHOUT IT
CoD4 has 'nade cooking. vCoD didn't. - WHY NOT ? ITS COMPLETELY FEASIBLE

If you dont want to play games with all the modern gadgets and perks then stick to WWII games and you wont have anything to complain about.

well, cod1 & cod2 requires alot of skill to hit an enemy , but I would like to agree that you don't need to be so skilled on cod4 and you can be ''pro'', I hope cod5 will be better , I know it will be!

greetz

Hm, a lot of people read skill as: Everything you have to do to be successful in a game. But in my eyes it's "only" the required aiming and sometimes also the movement, in other words, all things that require dexterity. All things that require thinking are tactical. When it comes to fighting, there are shooters that are more about skill, there are shooters that are more about tactics, and a lot of shooters are in between. Here is how I see in which direction various online shooters go:

"Tactics"<---BF2---CoD 4---CS1.6---W:ET---RtCW---UT---Quake--->"Skill"

So, saying that CoD 4 doesn't require much skill, doesn't imply that it is a game for retards, just that it is a game that focuses more on tactics. And most shooters nowadays are like that (probably also because they work better on consoles with gamepads), there aren't more shooters like RtCW/W:ET, UT or Quake, and their sequels (Quake 4, ET:QW and UT3) all stayed behind the originals. This blog entry doesn't criticize or look down on casual - players who pick up those newest games which have the highest quality, it criticizes ID and Epic failing to release good sequels to shooters that focus on skill, or even release new games like that.

So, let's stop bashing each other and discuss this topic.

You know what really was the best game that tested skill?
Not quake... Alien vs Predator! THAT was a game

just teamwork + aim >>> + cheats. that game is a big cheat game tbh. if u want a refurbished mohaa, pls create a new anti.cheat ty x))

It's easier to insult then to actually read what he wrote. Let me guess, you play COD4.

unreal tournament ctf nw, best and most skilled game ever!

lol@ the guy writing the blog, ur probly shit at games and resort to this.

lol@ the guy writing the blog, ur probly shit at games and resort to this.

I agree with this comment is well ( ill try tokeep it short)

I played COD 4 on xbox 360 around my mates online and honestly got a 10 or 12 kill streak first go i know its not PC but i know i could probably do the same against the COD community on PC since its almost to easy to kill people...

I played Halo on pc and console and it is very easy im not saying i would beat good players but i could probably give them a good run for their money Also to be honest i think COD 4 players may as well go play Chess at the pace of the game lol


there is some skill agreed in cod 4 and its more tactics/ positioning etc... the one thing i do hate about unreal / quakes is that all the game is, is who has got used to aiming most wins / accuracy while COD a less skilled aimer could still have a chance at winning its basically like Balancing issues Also this aim bit covers what people say about just casual players a casual player on ut will never get a positive efficiency kills/deaths they will always be negative since they cant get anywhere while on COD they probably could be rank 1 in a day ( exxageration)

The guy who I quoted was saying that I shouldn't compare Quake too CoD4. If you noticed I also talk about Defrag / Mirrors Edge.

Also, I'm sure they weren't technologically limited when designing CoD1 without a nade indicator. Since nades had a very distinct sound which as soon as you heard you had to work out in your brain using your ears where it landed and how to get away from it. Now you just have some UI show you. Weak.

you guys know what the worst thing is? That game developers wont even give a glance at these topics since they couldnt care less what this community wants/does not want.. Just as long as they can sell enough copies to a rather widespread consolepublic than to us hardcore gamers

and thats a damn shame!

Ok then play a promod game, no perks there.
If they had the technology back then to make grenade indicators and other stuff back then I'm pretty sure they would of. It's partly that new ideas of gameplay and mre technology has come along so therefore new gameplay.

Story short just change your topic title to, "lack of skill in Call of Duty 4". That's the only real argument you've seen to take a real pounding at and put together a freaking biography about.

Ever think it could be because gaming is started to get bigger and spreading to a wider audiance do to popularity. Therefore theres the little things they've added to the games to help out newcomers.

1. There's tweaks to set back those perks, such as s'et nading', even if you get the warning your still dead.
2. As far as I can remember, you've always been able to Regenerate health in some form or matter, whether it was running around for a health pickup or just regeneration over time.
3. What game points out an enemy? Unless your usings a bot or radar of some kind I'm pretty sure Online Games, DON'T, point out the enemies. There's still some online games that support Radars though, it's mean to be a perk for cod4 for doing well, and other games both teams can have it so therefore it balances out by making it more of a challenge to play because they know where you are. So in a sense some FPS games are adding to the online game-play.
4. Your Quake statement, completely untrue, there's still games where you have 5 or more weapons to manage, and there will be more to come, same goes to tracking down players.
5. Dude, Console gamers and PC games is a horrible comparison, two totally different feelings. Only thing that remains a constant is the game. Gaming isn't going casual either, the fact their adding perks for everyone means that it gets harder AND easier depending on what skill level your playing at.
6. It just looks like your raging after a bad CoD4 Game seeing as how everything you referenced had something in common with it, and the fact you mentioned it the most.

Example: Managing 8 weapons instead of one or two.

Well, it's call MODERN Warfare, so it's supposed to be realistic. Do you see modern day soldiers running into a field with 8 different weapons? No, didn't think so.

try 1.6.

Alright then, compare CoD1 to CoD4.

CoD4 has next to no recoil. vCoD did.
CoD4 has a grenade indicator. vCoD didn't.
CoD4 has minimap bips to show where enemies are. vCoD didn't.
CoD4 has no pistol slot or grenade slot. vCoD did. (My guess is this is because it's easier for console pads to have 1 button to switch weapons and 1 button to throw a grenade)
CoD4 has unbalanced perks. vCoD didn't.
CoD4 has choppers and helicopters. vCoD didn't (Pub only, but still.)
CoD4 has regenerating health. vCoD didn't.
CoD4 has 'nade cooking. vCoD didn't.

Do you get it now? They're adding UI elements to help low skillers and this is the reason the skill gap is smaller.

NONE of these elements are needed and should be removed

Ever think it could be because gaming is started to get bigger and spreading to a wider audiance do to popularity. Therefore theres the little things they've added to the games to help out newcomers.

1. There's tweaks to set back those perks, such as s'et nading', even if you get the warning your still dead.
2. As far as I can remember, you've always been able to Regenerate health in some form or matter, whether it was running around for a health pickup or just regeneration over time.
3. What game points out an enemy? Unless your usings a bot or radar of some kind I'm pretty sure Online Games, DON'T, point out the enemies. There's still some online games that support Radars though, it's mean to be a perk for cod4 for doing well, and other games both teams can have it so therefore it balances out by making it more of a challenge to play because they know where you are. So in a sense some FPS games are adding to the online game-play.
4. Your Quake statement, completely untrue, there's still games where you have 5 or more weapons to manage, and there will be more to come, same goes to tracking down players.
5. Dude, Console gamers and PC games is a horrible comparison, two totally different feelings. Only thing that remains a constant is the game. Gaming isn't going casual either, the fact their adding perks for everyone means that it gets harder AND easier depending on what skill level your playing at.
6. It just looks like your raging after a bad CoD4 Game seeing as how everything you referenced had something in common with it, and the fact you mentioned it the most.

Example: Managing 8 weapons instead of one or two.

Well, it's call MODERN Warfare, so it's supposed to be realistic. Do you see modern day soldiers running into a field with 8 different weapons? No, didn't think so.

Ever think it could be because gaming is started to get bigger and spreading to a wider audiance do to popularity. Therefore theres the little things they've added to the games to help out newcomers.

1. There's tweaks to set back those perks, such as s'et nading', even if you get the warning your still dead.
2. As far as I can remember, you've always been able to Regenerate health in some form or matter, whether it was running around for a health pickup or just regeneration over time.
3. What game points out an enemy? Unless your usings a bot or radar of some kind I'm pretty sure Online Games, DON'T, point out the enemies. There's still some online games that support Radars though, it's mean to be a perk for cod4 for doing well, and other games both teams can have it so therefore it balances out by making it more of a challenge to play because they know where you are. So in a sense some FPS games are adding to the online game-play.
4. Your Quake statement, completely untrue, there's still games where you have 5 or more weapons to manage, and there will be more to come, same goes to tracking down players.
5. Dude, Console gamers and PC games is a horrible comparison, two totally different feelings. Only thing that remains a constant is the game. Gaming isn't going casual either, the fact their adding perks for everyone means that it gets harder AND easier depending on what skill level your playing at.
6. It just looks like your raging after a bad CoD4 Game seeing as how everything you referenced had something in common with it, and the fact you mentioned it the most.

Example: Managing 8 weapons instead of one or two.

Well, it's call MODERN Warfare, so it's supposed to be realistic. Do you see modern day soldiers running into a field with 8 different weapons? No, didn't think so.

I think its stupid to compare quake and ut games with cod and cs. But lets see something about this skillgap thing...
Did u ever realized that quake 3 arena is released around 1999 and cod4 was released a few years ago? Every new game requires a new playingstyle. But if u struggled 2-3 years with 1 game than why u want to change? I see no reason. But 5+ years are more than enogh for players to perfect themselves compared to a newer game where pros are almost rookies. But these rookies will be better in time... and the skillgap will grow in time...

I think its stupid to compare quake and ut games with cod and cs. But lets see something about this skillgap thing...
Did u ever realized that quake 3 arena is released around 1999 and cod4 was released a few years ago? Every new game requires a new playingstyle. But if u struggled 2-3 years with 1 game than why u want to change? I see no reason. But 5+ years are more than enogh for players to perfect themselves compared to a newer game where pros are almost rookies. But these rookies will be better in time... and the skillgap will grow in time...

My point is, why have regenerating health? Why have the hit detector when you shoot through walls? why have grenade indicators? why have perks? why have no pistol slot? why have no grenade slot?

These things aren't required, they just lessen the gap between those who think their head, and those that think with their eyes.

The game would be fine without these, removing them creates a skill gap where players learn the game world rather than have the game point everything out to them.

See where I'm going here? You're confusing a games "setting" with "gameplay mechanics" the mechanics of a game should be far more important than the setting.

Rtcw2 is gunna be the game !

I agree with the last part of your posting, it annoys me, as a cod4 player who finally started liking it after 4 years of MOHAA, that cod5 was announced right after the latest part.

In former times, you played a game for a long time, and today it is replaced after such a short period of time, that really makes me sick.

I agree with the last part of your posting, it annoys me, as a cod4 player who finally started liking it after 4 years of MOHAA, that cod5 was announced right after the latest part.

In former times, you played a game for a long time, and today it is replaced after such a short period of time, that really makes me sick.

yawn @ this blog.

The only person who is right if ya ask me

if you think that for one moment game developers gives a fuck abour what you think the skill requirement in todays shooters are then you're as sad as the people that think potencial players are hackers and bullshit like that
It's a simple formality that with the right frame of thinking anyone can anticipate
MONEY
Call of Duty 4 would'nt of come out for Xbox360, PS3 if they actually thought gameplay was the way to go!
Simplicity is genious... and I don't think for one moment that call of duty 4 is simplicity. You're right if you use the word stupidity ^^
The fact & the bottom line is this

Xbox 360, PS3, PC + Greatest FPS game of this generation = People wanting to buy the game for PC... or buying a whole xbox360 just to play it online!
They want more money! Games is nothing but a gold mine to this... they don't care whether we feel the required skill is shit...
Did it ever occur to you why call of duty 5 was annouced 2 days after 4 was released? it's because they're getting way ahead of themselves, and soon they're gona trip and fuck up and the whole of cod series will be dead before the new one can recover!

Okay so narrow this down for me because apparently to you I'm too stupid to understand the point in this blog.

A game like Call of Duty 4 requires very little skill in comparison to Quake or even it's older version Call of Duty

So a game where in todays so called 'Modern Warfare' would require very little skill when yet you would have to nearly everytime you give away your position have to keep moving due to the fact that 90% of walls can be penetrated by bullets hitting you everytime your dumb predictable ass shows and yet when people cook nades you couldn't give 2 fucks and half a shit about the nade indicator because it would most likely explode before you notice the indicator is flashing. Yet a HUD that would only show where your enemy is when he shoots but it would've been logical to know SOMEBODY is fucking near you when he's shooting your ass. But yet you would whine at the simple fact it only takes a 180 degree turn with a 3g powered mouse being half the fucking effort to turn around and shoot back at him.

Comparing to real life (half of what the fucking game creators are trying to make MODERN FUCKING WARFARE LIKE
You should be lucky you can see how many fucking bullets are in your clip without having to think

With practically 2 minutes each round having to plant a breifcase near a pile of green boxes that have stinger missles inside them
Hey! Why not be even MORE LIFE LIKE how about I take out the fucking missles and shoot people with that! Instead of a fake fucking excuse of a desert eagle where I have to shoot people in the head TWICE because unlike you... complain IT'S TOO HARD, but now it's TOO EASY
I mean now i have a stinger launcher with a crate full of fucking missles! Considering I'm a marine... (and like the game creaters ebbing away for that like-life mentality that you don't seem to comprehend) nobody cares if I commit 'friendly fire'. I can fire away at anybody I please.

After watching an embarrasly pathetic match of Quake... all I see is two pointers that anybody could do to win a match

1) Jump
2) Spam

Yeah I'd admit Quake is a good game. It's excelled past many's expectations (seeing as your dying for me to say this) and has been titled for one of the greatest games of all time

But THAT time is gone... we're on a completely new turf. Call of Duty is on a completely new turf
1) Different Timeline
2) Different style of play
3) Different Makers
And see point number 3... with that comes different 'gameplay'
Not all game creators have the same mind. I'm sure if all games were like quake it'd be as dead as the rest of their sequels... but it's not! Move on....

Once Quake wants to decide to become 'Modern Warfare' then you can compare which one needs different type of skill

You drive on some damn good points I give you that, but once you understand it's fucking easy to kill somebody in real life just as it is in a game like Call of Duty 4 then you can think and understand why this blog is completely useless

But TRY to understand this... and I say please here
Quake, Call of Duty... two DIFFERENT weight classes
Don't compare Lenox Lewis to Lee Evans
Becuase they are in a completely different industry and they can never be compared, because they never will be the same
DEAL WITH IT!

My point I tried to say to you was simple... if there is a lack of skill (though I don't even see why that is a periquesite for you) then why are the same teams, 75% of the same players still known as the best? Simple, they've ADAPTED
You need to adapt too! Get into the state of mind this

that's really it!

great blog
fully agree,
example: top in the dieing uo scene is still the top in cod4 nowadays, they have the skills.

great blog
fully agree,
example: top in the dieing uo scene is still the top in cod4 nowadays, they have the skills.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122238237801276797.html

"As the audience for videogames grows, some developers worry that games are getting too easy."

Good blog I agree

/care

Sorry, I can't be bothered replying to an immature child.

If you want to debate this topic further with me, do it without insulting me.



You forgot to add a full stop. How ironic.



You play CoD4 which is based on luck rather than skill. I'll say it again, you can't improve on luck, only skill.

If you could predict where the bullets where going to go, took out grenade indicators, minimaps, added weapon balance then it would be fair.



1) Not an admin.
2) Public on vCoD4 is fucking dire
3) I've been playing games a lot longer than you son, and I never said that I was this "god" at games. I'm talking about how games are getting easier and easier.

Read
The
Blog
Properly
Before
Posting.

you guys are all talking about tactics and brain...

bullshit, unless you're a complete retard you should be able to handle the tactical aspects of cod4.

Quake is just a reflex game.. It's boring and stupid as fuck.

Only a little low skilled pussy would say shit like that.
You clearly lack e-sports knowledge and game skill, I would've respect the fact that you didn't realise half of what my post meant but I don't feel sorry for people like you, but I DO feel sorry for your grammar

If you were smart and did your research (yeah i know its hard for ppl like u) you would've known that the number of people that want things different than that of the last version of the game DOMINATES that of those who think it's fine or that it doesn't need to change.
You would've also known that game makers don't give 2 shits and half a piss towards the gameplay but mainly for graphics
Why? Because 2/3rds of the game makers are nothing but enthusiasts!
Does it require me to say it to get that fact into your thick skull? Jesus I've lost faith in mankind...

That's why there a mods, freakin idiots jezus christ wtf?

this whole blog is just one admin whining about getting owned in a public server withouth a mod coz he aint got skill himself..

u all have a point, however a fps game means first person SHOOTER, so SHOOTING should be the most important. @ cod4 (for example) tactics etc are WAY more important then pure shooting skills, most kills are camp or camp related, it is more like playing chess then fighting a dirty ``war``.

i want to play SHOOTING games, the more shooting and rushing the better, i dont want to camp and hide till i hear an enemy and then i pop out and kill him, it is ``lame``, i dont like it! i love tacticle play styles (like bf2) but shooting should be the main part. Old school shooting games like SOFII give much more entertainment then the tacticle camping nowdays, they were fun coz the only thing u could really do was shooting and shooting=fun

killing somebody with an insane headshot or making an ace when u rush towards them is way more fun then camp and stab 4 people in the back...

Completely? Only partly imho.

But I think you could compare these games like with the cars too. In old cars you probably don't have have abs-brakes, automatic traction control, automatic gearbox etc. (whatever they have) like in the new cars.

So in the racing contest, the new racer will just tell to the old fart, that he has to adapt into the race with all the automatic stuff, including the gearbox. The old fart would want all driving aids to be off instead for better challenge, because he would knew the new trainee would just drive off from the first corner without them...

I know it's not exactly the same with games, but i hope you get my point of view in this. For older dudes it's just not so cool to look that most the stuff you have trained for years will go useless, since the new versions does all the stuff for you instead...

It also makes it more boring when it's less challenging, unless it's just about having some fun. It's kinda like, that you don't have to use your senses (dexterity) anymore, just your brains (tactics). And this is the thing he complains about... Yes he probably would just need to adapt, but how you can enjoy it, when you have gotten used to the better (more rewarding one)...

It is completely ON-topic, as he is talking about the main facts the author is complaining about, and players <-> games are always related.

It's completely off-topic! He's talking about players when the blog is about the games...

The fucking issues are system requisites.
You can't play an hardcore old school game with a stupid joypad.
Latest generation games require specs that are not affordable by everyone. That's why people will not change their machine just to play UT3 or Quake4 when they can play ILLEGALY and FREELY UT99 and Q3 with lower system specs and same feeling.
That's why CoD and such games have so much followers:
console gamers play it, they show them to friends who says "Holy Crap!!!!11" and they will just buy them for console or, if they don't have it, for pc, cause they think there are lot of people playing.
Old school games are just too difficult to learn, you have to practice a lot to learn prediction, aim, map control, timing, dodging, strategy, enemy fooling and so on.
Today a far better game is one where even a blind can make a kill and think he is good. It's just a game, tomorrow another one will be out, we will play it for two-three months and so on.
Born, Live, Consume, Die

lack of skill blabla , who fucking cares everyöne plays what they like, useless fkion thread

This is dam accurate

That's about opinions anyway. U might think it's easier now but each game has each kind of skill development. As u said quake3 would take more skill and so, more time to practice with but that's the only thing that changes. A pro in quake3 is different of a pro of any game cuz the game is different. U can't really compare a skill of a game to another. Some games focuses on aim, some on hands movements, some on tactics and so on which gives them their own "skill" development to the players.

moh:sh rifle only is pro.

A big careface to this blog...

Agreed

I do not get your point, i started onlinegaming with MOHAA, which is not focused that much on movement but aim, and it was/is the best game ever.
Q3 was also fun i played it a longer period of time.
However, cod4 on its own is a great game as well, not comparable to older shooters, and so there is no need for such a text.

Verbally owned

Compare Call of Duty 1 to Call of Duty 4. CoD4 = for lows.



I'm talking about the lack of skill required in game. Learn to read.



If you don't like it, don't read it. You're clearly missing the point of this blog. This blog is about how games are becoming more focused on 'luck' rather than 'skill'. You can't improve on luck, but you can skill. That's what's wrong with todays games.



Again, I don't care about the players, it's the games that are getting more and more casual friendly



Great, they'll be good at the newer generation of games, but the game is getting smaller and smaller between low players and highs. You're still missing the point of this blog.



Adapted to what? Simpler games? Because that's a challenge, right?



Irrelevant.



Well, thanks for your long reply, but nothing about it said anything. You talked about players being good at the games they play, but the games themselves aren't hard to master.

Get back to Xbox live please, you clearly belong there.

I don't think generations are a valid point when it comes to games, we are all a bunch of kids inside playing computer games, even the 30+ years old gamers. The only difference is a 14 year old will be less relaxed in general. Also in games there aren't so many things to adapt to. Either you have a defensive style of play, an agressive style or a mix of them both.

Do you know why I find this such a funny blog

You would really want to flare your mouth on about how the skill of call of duty 4 players isn't what it was compared to UT/Quake and blah blah blah
If you were smart enough to realise that Call of Duty 1 compared to Quake itself had a whole different type of playing. A different method, a completely different technique required!

What the fuck are you talking about the lack of skill in players today?
The only lack of skill is you people because there is too much shit in between your ears, making a blog like this clearly shows that YOU have not been able to adapt the to newer generation of gameplay, it shows nothing else.

How your point to say that noobs from games such as the old school compared to now is different is beyond me yet the same teams, the same key players.

Dignitas, 4Kings, Reason Gaming, Koma Crew, Epsilon, Serious Gaming, Speed-Link, MeetYourMakers, Tek-9... the list goes on
Teams like these seem to have key-players you could pick out and name from the 'old school' games such as Call of Duty, remained on top to Call of Duty 2, and with the 'newer generation' Call of Duty 4 their reputation still points to the direction that they are known as the best players from then til now.

Do you want to know why they've remained as 'pro gamers' or whatever type of name you want to call them?
Because they've adapted!

imo the skill gap in todays shooters is this:


[-[YOU]-----------------------------[Dire]-----------[HIGH]---------------[PRO]

People like you keep swaying away from the fact that will always remain. There has to be a better! If you want to be the 'better' or in the 'pro' class. Try to play the game and adapt to the newer generation and stop trying to bring the dead back to life.
If you didn't anticipate the fact that newer games will always be different then you are NEVER going to get good... never

The gap between highskilled and professional is good tactics...

True :-(

The hippies sell weed!

hippies > netram

Things were always better in the past, the hippies have said it and now Netram has said it.

Good Game.

Total agree!

+1

Naw, more like RtCW or W:ET as I stated above. In Quake 3 there is no headshot bonus, and movement is way faster.

W:ET is for free btw, and still pretty popular, why don't you try it out once? It has more teamplay and tactic elements then Quake, but also requires more skill then CS imo. According to John Carmack it might also get a "Live" - Version if Quake Live is a success.



Are you kidding? Did you ever play against a good player or watch good players play? It's the purest skill shooter I can imagine. Is it because it doesn't limit the player with slow movement, recoil and stuff? Thats the whole point, the gameplay itself is easy, but it can be played on a very high level. Limitations like recoil and movement restrictions reduce the skill factor and make a game more tactical. In other words, the challenge is a different one and its a question of preference. In Quake a good player like Fatal!ty can play against five players at the same time and beat them. In CoD 4 thats probably not possible because five players can easily use their numerical advantage, as it is rather a tactical shooter then a skill shooter. Nobody said CoD 4 was crap, just that it doesn't challenge the player in a way a lot of us like.

It was on my mind at the time of writing, plus I'm getting pumped for Quake Live :]



This is by far the most constructive comment on this blog post. Thanks for your contribution, the arguments expressed here are valid and make me feel dumb.

Oh wait..



I wouldn't call a post with 3554 views and 142 comments pointless. Clearly it's a topic I and a few others feel strong about. I could say the same thing about your comment, since I can't see the point of it at all.

jst to say Netram is a noob

That reply summerize evertyhing.

Who cares about past players' skill or the nowadays' heroes ?

Just play , enjoy , lose and whine then :>

i agree with some points.
but you talk about quake like it's your girlfriend.
quake isnt a really difficult game either.

I agree totally... but there are some funny guys that are pro in every damn game :P that would be... "Dire-Pro" (cheaters xD) ^^

Sounds like playing Quake 3 with MG only

One most *BAD* thing in modern shooters is dynamic crosshairs, and extreme aim error with it. There is no reason to move fast - you cant hit anyone when moving. You can only spray bullets in enemy way - maybe they hit the enemy in head. And they hit, somethimes :/
Dynamic crosshairs stimulates camping.

Dynamic crosshairs system sux. Most new players n00bs because of this system.

Players from shooters with that system may not agree with me, but, at first, if you think you are PRO, try to beat true pro from Quake. I don`t think it will be easy for you.

I was hoping for a gamemode in the next CoD, that would replace the unpopular oldschool - mode for something that plays more like RtCW/W:ET: Fast movement, shooting while sprinting, no iron sights, dot instead of crosshair, almost no recoil or spread, and three headshots for a kill. I suggested that to Treyarch, but it will not happen of course. Imo this would fit very well to gamemodes like headquarters, sabotage and ctf. It would also make the game more complete, as then it had not only the tactic oriented hardcore - mode and the slightly more skill - oriented normal mode, but also a relatively pure skill - oriented mode. Not as pure as Quake or UT of course, but those games mechanics do not fit with CoD's maps anyway.

But it is a little funny that there are a buttload of tactical realism mods out there, but no skill - mods, at least not to games that are not about skill.

We can complain all we want, but the matter of fact is there will be no release of skilled game like UT and Quake for long time. That's why suggest to create Mod on good engine and promote it on clanbase.

My next buy will be Crysis warhead and we all know this game is very mod friendly and this engine can last for very long because of the graphics .
Gameplay = graphics and graphics = gameplay you can see it as a chicken and egg tale.

I know for sure that there are people who are interested to mod such a game for the public also I never heard of mod that was created only for skills( I’m not talking about standalone games)
Example just different looks but the gameplay of quake 3 arena or UT (mix) = with the graphics of crysis = Succes for community and public.

I don't own the first release of crysis but this one "crysis warhead" is only for 25€ so!!

http://www.mazapan.se/games/BurnTheRope.php

so funny, the song at the end had me in tears

Thats why I did played Enemy Territory so long, a game where u need teamplay and aim. The teams is highskilled not the person himself.

Anyways COD2 is ownage right now

yea pretty much, if you finish hard mode under 1000 deaths i salute you! but be aware, this game is very addictive

You got it all wrong...
There are different kinds of shooters (which you might have missed if you just started 2-3 years ago), and the kind of shooters that are released nowadays are not hitting the taste of the op and many posters who agree with him. Nobody wants anybody to stop playing anything, it would just be nice if there was something good released in the department of fast skill (read:dexterity, not tactics) - based shooters once in a while, and not just tactical realism or rpg - elements and stats...

These kind of blogs seems to have been written by a shooter hater just to get to the #1 with Blogs and to get attention by receiving a lot of comments.

Ah well, here, you can have mine

But you didn't make me stop with shooters

Might test it later. Is it kind of the opposite to this game?
http://www.mazapan.se/games/BurnTheRope.php

I dare you!!
http://kayin.pyoko.org/iwbtg/

The problem with todays games are that it's too easy for noobs to get kills. That is the bottom line.

#New game scenario#

1. A noob identifies you (probably from a dot on the map)
2. He sprays through a wall
3. A marker comes up on his screen letting him know he's hit you (gg)
4. He's kills you

#Old game scenario#

1. A noob identifies you
2. He jumps out of a window, sprints across the road with 25% HP and runs through the door
3. You fire one round and rip the flesh from his face. Noob dead.

This is why people prefer old school games. If you're skilled enough you have to think more, focus on noise and make the hits really count. You constantly remind yourself how much health your enemy has left, letting you know how much you can push him and if he's skilled he'll know you know this and react accordingly.

All in all a better game.

INSTEAD some noob can hide behind a door and pop out with full HP in a matter of seconds.

lets not be forgetting the first CoD, where the only real problem was the fuckin left lean

You are right.

omg i play cod and i love ut1 -.- i dont play it because all them are good

UT3 isn't a game, it's an engine ported as a game. No maps except for very few 'engine show off' maps, no decent instagib implementation, less functions and more bugs then the previous versions, nothing new except for new graphics (engine showoff).

This game was built without vision: a game is for gamers, and this game in particalur should be ment for serious gamers wich have high expectations but can when they believe make this game a worldwide competative success. The lead developers seemed to have switched gears halfway and went for the 'console/recreation gamers money' in wich they failed.

They could have earnt just as much 'console' money solely selling the new (no real skills needed) gears of war 2 footage instead of adding it to the UT3 game. With a proper vision and focus on succes they could have earned lots of cash and most important: huge reputation.

Midway = broke, Epic = strong, Epic used to be innovations now a days they are just being 'cash-cows' with a cunt on top of all new development projects in the name of cliffy-b. Give us our cherry back, and come up with one great competative (without vehicles!) game!

Alright then, let's say that Quake hadn't been released.

Lets say Infinity Ward designed the game today.

You would have:

• Grenade indicators
• Timers for when pickups spawn
• Minimap
• Minimap bips showing where enemies are
• Regenerating health
• Some XP system with rewards so you have to level up

See where I'm going with this? I'm not saying that people who play these games are bad, I'm saying games are getting simplified. Theres a difference.

I probably would get my ass handed to me by top level CoD4 players, but comparing a CoD4 "Pro" to the shooters of yestergeneration is uncompareable.

Games are getting simplified for the Xbox live kiddies and old folks and it's really becoming a pain. I don't remember the last time I struggled on a game.

#1 comment of wenky, no one cares about ur opinion bad belgium player..

BUT

headline says enough, see skill gap between cod4 and cod2 gimme a break sprint 40km/h and cook nades , its to easy
check cod2 far more difficult to perform on high level, hopefully treyarch reads this article for their development in CODWAW.

Only difficult games these days are tf2,cs1.6,cod2 and hopefully codwaw, cod4 no recoil game -.-

Sigh, again, its either skill or tactics, a shooter can't be focused on both. And CoD 4 Hardcore is about tactics, not about skill. You just need to point at an opponent, press the button, and he is dead. That doesn't require any real skill, you need tactics to prevent opponents from doing that to you, the fragging itself is easier then in any other shooter I ever played. You probably never played Quake, UT, W:ET, UrT etc., otherwise you would know that the skill gap in these games is way higher then in CoD 4.

Read my post below yours, if you want that illustrated in detail...

And lol, if we take UT3 for example, it took me 3 hours, or more, to configure it, to be playable.

Motion blur, ingame mouse acceleration, useless shit. It's just impossible to gain skill, and play the game, if you leave it as they published it.
Pure shit.

Just wondering why ut1 ictf still has more signups than ut3..
Pure shit.

I couldn't find a game I would play, in the last 6 yrs.

Lots of ppl play cod, and stuff like that nowadays.
When I mention I play a 9 year old game (UT1), they maybe remember it, and they start saying some bullshit, like that's a no skill game, you just have to shoot.

BUT COD, it's made of tactics, and stuff they say...

Then they see me playing ut1, ictf. (and I am an average player..)
They just can't keep up, can't solve the integrity, and they can't keep up with the speed of the game.

I can play cod on a level, but if they start to play UT, they are just a piece of rubbish.

what a load of rubbish.....hardcore is for the true gamer in cod4 that likes skill and tactics the only thing its missing is take away the silly regen...but there none of the hud type things he talking about...fool lol

Dude, in BF2 skill is not even an issue, due to the screwed - up hitboxes shooting is so random...

Maybe I am wrong about this, but in my understanding skill in shooters is mainly about the players dexterity, everything else falls more in the department of tactics. The less skill a shooter requires, the more you are forced to outsmart the opponent, thus the game is more about tactics. The more skill a game requires, the less useful is it to simply outsmart an opponent and the more dexterity you need, thus the game is more about skill, meaning players who posses more dexterity (good aim and good reaction, in games like quake also good movement) will be more successful.

W:ET and CoD 4 are good examples to demonstrate that. In W:ET a tactical advantage like getting behind an opponent is definitely useful, but if you are not able to give him a few headshots fast, and he possesses enough skill for that, its useless: after 1-2 hits which consume like 38% of his health he will turn around and waste the less skilled player with a few headshots. He might also avoid further hits from the less skilled player by strafing, somebody who isn't able to do headshots from behind usually can not compensate that.

In CoD 4 on the other hand skill is helpful, but if somebody is behind you and shoots simply at your body or legs, its useless, as you will most likely die before being able to turn around. In W:ET the player with the skill - advantage will usually beat the player with the tactical advantage, in CoD 4 the player with the tactical advantage will usually beat the player with the skill advantage. W:ET is more about dexterity, CoD 4 more about outsmarting the opponent.

So, when the op and many posters here regret the lack of skill in modern shooters, they are not saying that modern shooters are for retards or something, they are simply not happy that nearly all new shooters focus more on tactics, and less on skill (dexterity). Its just a question of preference, not of what is more challenging, both kinds of shooters are challenging, but in different ways.

And I share that concern, the majority of players seems to forget or not even have an idea that shooters that are mainly about dexterity can be played on a very high level, and thus provide fun and challenges for years, as you will get better over time. Usually you can also transfer a good part of your acquired skill to another shooter which requires dexterity, something that is not true for stats, which is the main reason why I find them so pointless and unmotivating. But that development is also, if not exclusively, the fault of the devs and publishers, who are failing to release a good skill - based shooter these days. The last one was UT 2004 from 2004, Quake 4, ET:QW and UT3 all failed and are viewed as not as good as their predecessors by most fans. Another reason might be the rpg - boom, which makes a lot of players prefer tactics and maybe virtual rewards/skills over actual skill/dexterity.

I hope its just a phase, and that in a few years skill - shooters are booming. Remember, a few years ago rpgs where considered a dying genre, everything is possible. I am looking forward to Quake Live, and really hope that ID/Raven/Endrant will not drop the ball with "Wolfenstein".

This is stupid imo, if the game is harder.. the game is harder for everyone. If the game is simple, people will think smart, better people will think smarter.. and pro's have to be.. fill it in. Skill has nothing to do with the game.

When everyone has the same advantages/disadvantages. Same weapons and information, then when some1 is better than some1 else there is a skill-difference involved.

No matter how hard or easy you make a game, some people will be better than others...

Like with UT3 people said it's a lot easier to frag someone (insta) than in UT99, that's nice, but it also means you will die a lot more.

I think any oldskool player ( gaming for at least 5 years ) will agree that games used to be harder than they are now.

also every1 who has never played a game like cs1.6/1.5 quake or ut has no reason to post in here as you clearly know nothing of skilled gaming. 1.6 ive been told is one of the most skilled games. aiming is needed as well as handling of recoil and in wars tactics are a large part vs some1 of the same skill level as you

u want the best example of this.

the gap between bf2 and bf2142.

bf2 was made for skilled gamers, they dumbed down 2142 so that people who couldn't do well on bf2 didn't get bored and quit.

u can see this from:

The smaller rank gaps (when you first start in 2142 about 5 kills gets u up a rank and an unlock)
The smaller amount of types (in bf2 u gained points in a certain way. making your choice of character count more if you were good at it. in 2142 the characters are interchangeable making it so much easier. i mean mixing assault with medic just has retard written all over it)

agree, low skilled games + cheats are killing multiplayer shooters for me

the skill gap is right, maybe teamplay influence the game a little bit more, but all in all is it right

MOH:AA and CoD1 were so amazing skilled games!!!

everyone on cod4 and things has the same advantage over each other, everyone has a minimap etc and im sure in quake everyone had the same advantage too :/

Even there is grenade indicators hud etc.. in cod4 you can throw the grenade cooked so that grenade indicator wont help. you can show your spot with hud and sneak to other spot it takes more gaming head than many other games you can still be good even your aim aint the best and shooting trough the walls? whats wrong with that if you hear the enemy behind wall ofc its cleaver to bang him trough than jump in

Yup Cod 1 best game ever just, just had to listen and be skill full , now its if u have more fps and fire randomly you win? its not skill its just LAME!

agree 100% looking forward to getting into Qlive roll ON.

agree totally

i aint played cod 4 so wudnt know, i just know when u go on a public u wipe every 1 out. i suppose its just like moh tho, the best players hardly play publics?

I have thought this for ages and was very happy to see someone who agrees entirely with what I think about todays FPS games. Its the reason I am still playing COD2 as this game required more skill than all these new games like COD4.

COD2 is guilty for some of these things aswell though and I agree but its getting worse and worse.

VietCong was my first game and I can tell you now you had to have skill to play that game properly.

Now all you need is a P90 and a wall to shoot through :P

Hm, CS 1.6 has more players then CSS, UT2004 has more players then UT3, Quake 3 has more players then Quake 4, W:ET has more players then ET:QW and so on. And none of these games is dead, neither are CoD1, CoD:UO, CoD 2, BF 1942 or BF:V. We all would like newer graphics, but gameplay comes first, and if a new game isn't at least as good in terms of gameplay, then its better graphics are no reason to prefer it over the older ones.

Most players seem to see it the same way, BF2 and CoD 4 having more players then their predecessors are exceptions, and thats probably not because most of the community converted. Both games attracted a lot of players who never played the predecessors, but who think its cool to play soldier in a modern scenario, and who think it's cool to push stats. To each his own I say, but these type of player doesn't really belong into any kind of "shooter - community" imo, as they prefer a scenario over gameplay and prefer playing the same maps over and over on ranked servers only for the sake of stats, thus killing or at least damaging the mapping - and modding - community, both more vital to online - shooters (a lot of shooters started as mods) then ranked gameplay ever will be!

Edit: One more thing BF2 and CoD 4 have in common is, that they both require less skill then their predecessors, the first one has messed up hitboxes making the shooting relatively random, the second one just makes it very easy to frag. And here is a little prediction: Contrary to your assumption, that "the community" likes newer games better, CoD:WaW will be less successful then CoD 4, even if its as good or better. First of all it has no modern scenario, second of all the shooting might be more skill - based(I can already hear comments like: "CoD:WaW sux because of the less accurate WW2 - weapons"), both will repulse the type of player mainly responsible for BF2 and CoD 4 being so successful.

treu cod4 is boring idd
evry random nub can win a war by sitting in a dark corner
i prefer games like mohaa !

CoD4 isn't exciting? x)

oldskool will always whine about the newskool

MEDAL OF HONOR SPEARHEAD....

END OF.

THATS SKILL.

owned.